Subject: SMML17/02/98VOL093 shipmodels@tac.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- INDEX 1: Re: Plans for Flying Cloud 2: Re: Titanic : the movie 3: U209 4: Re: Titanic : the movie 5: Titanic Movie-Helm Orders 6: Re: Titanic 7: Titanic Rudder Orders 8: Re: Flying Cloud Plans 9: Re: Titanic's helm orders ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: David Hathaway Subject: Re: Plans for Flying Cloud Dan, Plans are available from Brown, Sons and Ferguson in the UK for a number of ships, alas Flying Cloud isn't one of them but it's a useful URL none the less. http://www.skipper.co.uk/brown/pages/catsm.htm Regards David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John S. Altemueller" Subject: Re: Titanic : the movie This harkens back to the old days at sea when a tiller was used to move the rudder of a ship.Pushing a tiller to the right -or "starboard" -moves the vane of the rudder to the left and turns the ship to port.By the same token to "port the helm" or push the tiller to the left will turn the ship to starboard. Old habits died hard at sea,and the archaic commands were used for many years after ships gained wheels.It was about the time of the Titanic's sinking that the commands began to be "rationalized"-to turn left call "hard-a-port" and to turn right call "hard-a-starboard",but the old system was in use on the Titanic's bridge that fateful night. John Altemueller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Roberto Paredes" Subject: U209 Hi! At this moment, I'm finding a U209's kit (modern German diesel Sub) in 1/350 or 1/700 scale. Somebody knows a kit. Thanks for some news. Roberto. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John L. Bishop" Subject: Re: SMML16/2/98Vol92 Stefan, In 1912 the wheel of a ship was rigged similarly to a tiller of a sailing vessel. Thus, "Hard to Starboard" meant that the rudder actually went hard to port. This threw me for a loop the first time I saw it too..... This kind of accuracy bodes well for the overall accuracy of the film....but you've got to be careful about using it for a modelling reference. For example: Only one side of the mockup ship was fully detailed (the starboard side). When they wanted to film the ship from the port side, they REVERSED ALL THE LETTERING, filmed the scene, and then printed the film REVERSED! The implications of this become apparent when you realize that the Titanic was not fully symmetrical. For example: On the forcastle there is a skylight located just aft of the port splash shield (for the crew kitchen). In some scenes, this skylight can be seen on the starboard side (where a spare anchor (not in the movie) was stowed. Just for the record, the only way I caught this was going through "Titanic: Breaking New Ground" frame by frame on my VCR... :-). John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Titanic Movie-Helm Orders >> I went to see "Titanic" this weekend; great movie, BUT at a certain moment, I thought I had put my left eye right and v.v.; this is probably already said somewhere, but did I see it right that when seeing the iceberg, one of the officers says: "starboard" and the man at the rudder turns LEFT ? And afterwards, vice versa, the officer saying "port" and the wheel is turned to the right? << You heard correctly-- In the days of sail, the order "Hard a Port" meant the tiller was moved to port, which meant a right turn. In 1912, they still used this convention. Thus, "Hard a Starboard" meant the helmsman turns the wheel (and the ship) to port. This convention was changed shortly after WW1, I think..... Bill and Kaja Michaels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ian K Wilkins Subject: Re: Titanic >> I went to see "Titanic" this weekend; great movie, BUT at a certain moment, I thought I had put my left eye right and v.v.; this is probably already said somewhere, but did I see it right that when seeing the iceberg, one of the officers says: "starboard" and the man at the rudder turns LEFT ? And afterwards, vice versa, the officer saying "port" and the wheel is turned to the right? << In a quest for accuracy, the makers of Titanic reproduced the type of helm orders in use at this period in history. At this time helm orders still harked back to those given on ships with tiller steering. On a vessel with a tiller to "starboard your helm" meant to put the tiller to starboard thus turning the rudder and the ship to port and V V. So, in effect a command of "starboard" means turn the ship to port. By the time wheel steering came along this convention was still in place and by now a command of "starboard" meant "put the wheel to port to get the same affect as putting the tiller to starboard in order to get the ship to turn to port"! It was not until the 1933 that the modern conventions of helm orders were adopted in the UK. Ian Wilkins Visit my shipmodel website http://www.uq.edu.au/~htiwilki/shipmods.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Titanic Rudder Orders This scene was much discussed in some of the newsgroups that are devoted to the historic Titanic, as well as to the current film. The consensus was that rudder orders for that period do not correspond to what is typical today, i.e. turning the rudder to the right for a starboard turn. The technology simply worked differently. For more details, look at: alt.history.ocean-liners.titanic alt.movies.titanic.' Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Flying Cloud Plans I posted the question to the Seaways list, wherein live lots of sailing ship modelers. The answer I got was: >> Last time I looked, Bluejacket offered a decent set of plans and a booklet for FLYING CLOUD. Barring that, Taubman Plans Service probably offers several from different sources. Jim Roberts Dover, N.J. SSBNdriver@aol.com << ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Titanic's helm orders >> says: "starboard" and the man at the rudder turns LEFT ? And afterwards, vice versa,the officer saying "port" and the wheel is turned to the right? << You heard it correctly. Those orders were correct for the day and age that they were given. They came from the days when putting the helm to starboard meant the tiller, which of course put the rudder to port and turned the ship to port. Since this was an anachronism due to wheels and linkages, the British and all others before WWII had changed to the current "right is right and left is left" standard. Others may have the correct reasons and dates better than my note but this is essentially the story. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume