Subject: SMML17/03/98VOL121 shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- POLL RESULTS ---------------------- Well, out of the responces received, 85% of people voted YES to question A, with a limit of 20 - 25 lines, once a week. Meaning each of our advertising subscribers has the opportunity to utilise up to 25 lines of SMML space to list/advertise their products and sales/specials/services per week. (ie: one message of 25 lines per week) Product "Naming" in postings is hereby officially NOT classed as advertising on SMML. It is necessary to name products in our forum, otherwise, it would be a pretty boring and confusing mailing list. If distributors would like to suggest something they have in stock to a reader in their reply to a post, I would suggest a simple URL address could be used to lure potential customers to your trading area Another very smart idea was to divide SMML into 2 sections, with postings and questions first, then a traders section at the end of the volume, which not only Companies can use, but all modelers who want to buy/sell/trade. This does not in any way mean the organisations/distributors/retailers cannot participate in the general day to day discussions, I personally would like to encourage more of this. And yet another unexpected demand was a limit on the length of signatures. The readers say no more than 3-5 lines in those sigs!!! An overwhelming 95% said a Firm NO to question B. Meaning just about everybody loves the ads, and enjoy reading the specials and hearing about the new product releases. (In moderation of course..:-) These conditions are as yet "not set in stone", so if anybody feels they want to launch a protest, you may do so, and your agruement will be presented before the readers and discussed in SMML - if not, That's all she wrote! The "modernised" SMML will be recommissioned tommorow. Thanks to all who participated. Greg (Listmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- INDEX 1: USS Midway 2: RE: USS Forrestal, Revell H-339 Kit Instructions 3: Subject: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! 4: Old Ship Kits (wooden) 5: RE: USN & RN Paints 6: CGC Eastwind and Rodger B. Taney 7: Re: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! 8: Re: Baltimore class & USS Quincy 9: RE: USS New Jersey Reference Material 10: Titanic Stuff.... 11: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! 12: Re: RMS Titanic 13: Colour Police 14: Navy Ship News! 15: USS Texas BB-35 16: Thanks 17: Card Models 18: Re: 1/700 ARLEIGH BURKE 19: Re: CGC EASTWIND 20: WIND Class icebreakers: USN/USCG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Greg Lee (Listamaster - SMML) Subject : USS Midway Hi, Somebody mentioned a few days ago that they were seeking info on the USS Midway in her early configuration - I stumbled through this site and found some nice pics, hope they help! http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/ship.html#os Greg (Listmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "DOUGLAS MARTIN" Subject: RE: USS Forrestal, Revell H-339 Kit Instructions Joe Divar: I have the original 1972 UK kit instructions for the Revell 1/550? scale Forrestal. They are Revell GB, full hull version, which I got for Xmas 1972 and built in Jan 1973. I also built the Boston as well, which is one of my oldest surviving warships. I can photocopy at work, its a sort of 'double A3' size, printed on both sides. Give me your name and address etc and I will do the deed. (You may not believe this, but it was virtually on the top in a box of old warship instruction sheets, kept for posterity!!) Regards, Douglas (Scotland) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! >> Still looking for instructions for the Revell kit. Please help me, Revell doesn't answer any of my three letters for help and I don't have a current kit with a good customer service phone number. Anything, xerox instructions or Revell point of contact would be greatly> appreciated. << Which incarnation of the ship? I have both available to copy for you. James ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: witsie/ken mckelvy Subject: Old Ship Kits (wooden) Found the following old kits listed for auction on eBay: 1. MIB,1938 Ideal Pre-War Cruiser Augusa Kit http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8425369 2.MIB,1938 Ideal Pre-War Subchaser Model Kit http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8424996 3.MIB,1938 Ideal Pre-War US.Coast Guard Ship http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8424092 4. MIB,1938 Ideal Pre-War USS Hull Destroyer http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8422839 If I've goofed on the URLs, just search on either the item number or key words in the description. Don't know if my eBay findings are of any interest to anyone, if I'm wasting space, let me know and I'll stop listing them (with no offence taken). Ken McKelvy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: RE: USN & RN Paints Jeff, May I have a copy of your paint list, too? Thanks in advance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: N2FIX Subject: CGC Eastwind and Rodger B. Taney Sorry for the long post. I have a number of the Taney models in progress, and have been waiting the release of photoetch for these kits. The Taney kit appears to be in her 1950's- early '60s configuration, with the additional superstructure added after her conversion to an AGC and a single 5"/38 and hedgehog. The Burton Island kit also depicts this time period, with the helicopter platform aft and the twin 5"/38 forward. The USCGC Eastwind was one of seven "Wind" class icebreakers built for WW2 service. Five of the cutters, using their modern names, were built for the U.S. Coast Guard: Eastwind, Northwind (II), Southwind, Westwind and Staten Island. The Burton Island and the Edisto were built for the U.S. Navy, but were later transferred to the CG. As built these vessels were armed with twin 5"/38 mounts forward and aft, three 40mm quad mounts, one aft the forward 5" and one on each bridge wing, at least six 20mm singles, a hedgehog, six "Y" guns and two depth charge tracks. Photos and government plans show that a J2F Duck aircraft could be carried immediately behind the stack. An interesting feature was the removeable bow propeller, useful for loose ice conditions. The Staten Island was built as the Northwind (I) and was transferred to the Russians on commissioning in February '44, and was named Admiral Makrov and Severni Veter in Soviet service. She was returned in '52 and served with the USN, renamed Staten Island, (Northwind (II) was in commission), until her transfer to the CG in '66. The Southwind was transferred to the Russians in March '45 and named Kapitan Belusov in Soviet service. She was returned in '50 and served with the USN as the Atka until her transfer to the CG in '67, when she reverted to her original name. The Westwind was transferred to the Russians in February '45, and was named Severni Pulius in Soviet service. She was returned in '51 for CG use. Before transfer to the Russians, the ship's SA-2, SL-1 and gunnery control radar were removed, the armament was altered to four 3"/50 single mounts, eight 40mm single mounts, six 20mm single mounts and it seems the the hedgehog and "Y" guns were removed. A photo of the Northwind (II) taken in 1946 shows the aft 5" mount removed, a helicopter platform fitted, a Sikorsky HNS-1 helicopter on the platform and a Curtiss SOC Seagull aft of the stack. A photo of the Eastwind in 1963 shows the forward gun mount to be a closed single 3"/50 Mk33. All of the icebreakers later had their armament removed, and were protected only by small arms. The "Secretary" class of seven 327' cutters were highly regarded during their time in service. The ships' design was based on the U.S. Navy's Charleston and Erie gunboats, with slight modifications. The vessel names were shortened in 1937 to that in quotes: George M. "Bibb", George W. "Campbell", William J. "Duane", Alexander "Hamilton", later "Alexander Hamilton" again, Samuel D. "Ingham", John C. "Spencer" and Rodger B. "Taney". As built the ships were armed with two 5"/51 single open mounts, two 6-pounders and one 1-pounder. The ships' armament was altered significantly before and during the war, to include various combinations of 5"/51 and 3"/50 single open mounts, 5"/38 singles, 40mm, 20mm and hedgehog. In April '44 the Taney was armed with four 5"/38 singles in destroyer turrets and was the only ship of the class so equipped. Later in the war the ships, except the Alexander Hamilton (an early loss to U-132 off Iceland) were converted into amphipious force flagships, (AGC). In this configuration the Duane was armed only with two quad 40mm, three twin 40mm, and eight 20 mm single mounts. The 327s were designed to carry an aircraft on the aft deck. All of the ships had active war careers, the Ingham accounting for the U-626, Spencer the U-225 and U-175, and Campbell the U-606 with assistance from the Polish destroyer Burza. I highly recommend "U.S. Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of WW2" C1982 (ISBN 0-87021-717-8) and "U.S. Coast Guard Cutters and Craft 1946-1990" C1990 (ISBN 0-87021-719-4), both by Robert L. Scheina, Naval Institute Press. Bob Birmingham Still researching...... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ModelerAl Subject: Re: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! >> ...I don't have a current kit with a good customer service phone number. << Call them at (800) 833-3570. HTH, Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Baltimore class & USS Quincy 1) Subject: Baltimore class CAs Buttner1@aol.com wrote: >> Am looking for a waterline model of the USS St.Paul(Baltimore Class)heavy cruiser. Where should I look.... << and "Les Dorr Jr." wrote: >> Not waterline, but Revell is supposedly bringing back their 1:500(?) USS Helena in the next batch of SSP re-issues. Haven't seen this kit since I was a kid (too many years ago!) but as I remember, wasn't too bad except for the 40mm guns (rectangular barrels!) and 20mm (molded into the deck. I recall the 8" guns and turrets being especially nice. << The Helena heavy cruiser is part of the Spring 1998 Revellogram SSP program. Lets hope the molds survived better than the "McHale's Navy" PT boat reissue that had to be cancelled. The Revell Baltimore's represent the later ships with the rounded transoms, according to Dave Wells. They are also flat bottomed like most of Revell's ship kits from that era. I used the feedback form at the Revell-Monogram site to ask about reissuing the Boston/Canberra CAG conversion of the Baltimore class, and also the LPH Guadacanal (ex-Aurora). I checked the box asking for a written answer, and about 10 days later I got a letter saying that neither were in their plans for the future at this time. 2) Subject: USS Quincy and other web sites Raynor Johnston wrote: >> Anyone have any titles of books containing good photographic info on the above ships. I know the Salem is a museum ship in Quincy, but that is a little far from me here in New Zealand otherwise I would visit. << There are many photographs of the USS Salem on the web site. Most are modern day, so only the main deck and above have been repainted. I don't remember what measure she wore during her peacetime service but I do know that all vertical surfaces and deck equipment and hatches were a certain shade of gray (of course); The sides, backs and gun barrels of the 8 inch and 5 inch guns were a slightly darker shade. The faces and tops of the 8 and 5 inch guns were a very noticeable, even darker shade of gray. At the 01 level and higher the steel decks exposed to the weather were painted with black nonskid, which turns into a dark gray very quickly. I'm not sure if the original crew painted nonskid 'paths' like they do today, or if the nonskid covers the full width (like we did) of the deck. Since Salem and her sisters were Flagships, all railings were white, and canvas coversee painted white were sewn over the top lifeline around the perimeter of the ship. She had both steel and wooden boat booms, and the accommodation ladders had wooden handrails. The wood has a reddish-brown color under many layers of varnish. The teak decks were holystoned so they were 'white'. I can't picture the wood being a pure white, but I've never seen a holystoned deck. From: BSteinIPMS Bob Steinbrunn wrote: >> One of the best resources for ship modelers is the Nautical Research Guild's web site at: http://www.naut-res-guild.org. You will find links to many interesting places, museums, naval memorials, and such. Included in this listing is the "U.S. Naval Shipbuilding Museum and USS Quincy". << The U.S. Naval Shipbuilding Museum and the USS Salem site is: --------- http://www.uss-salem.org/ >> Another web site of interest to modelers and researchers is "Haze Gray and Underway at: http://www.membrane.com/~elmer/navy. Aside from the main content you'll find links to many interesting sites. << Andrew Toppan's "Haze Gray and Underway" moved to the USS Salem site last year as the Naval History section. No longer constrained for space, he has added much more data, hundreds of new photos, and many more features. The USS Salem web site is not just another museum ship site. There is lots of data about Naval ships world wide, past and present. Important Note: The USS Salem site has been updated with information about the upcoming USS Salem model. Please check it out. Thank you. Larry Ouellette Quincy, Massachusetts Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U. S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum http://www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: RE: USS New Jersey Reference Material Matti Kurki wrote: >> I was unfourtunately unable to get my hands on the probably best single reference for the Big J: USS New Jersey: An Illustrated History, which was supposed to be my main reference building the Big J after 1982 refit. << That book is out of print right now, but Paul Stillwell has told us that he'll probably do another edition of it after the ship becomes a museum. >> Which reference (plans/books) would you recommend? There is abook USS New Jersey, Hard Cover, published 1997, ISBN 1563112566, ~$50, but I have no knowledge if this book worth buying as I don't know if there are any plans/drawings or decent photos included. << Try Dulin & Garzke's "Battleships: US Battleships 1935-1992". It's got lots of good diagrams & pictures. Also, Malcolm Muir's book on Iowa class battleships has some pretty good photos. The Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society page, (http://www.quuxuum.org/bnj/) has at least some digitized photos on it, but I don't think we have many of the good pictures of the 1980s up yet. One good one is at http://www.quuxuum.org/bnj/images/bb62atpearl.jpg. A former crewman put up a bunch of good pictures at: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/rathburne1/nj.htm I have a couple of others that we haven't identified yet of the New Jersey in the 1980s that might be helpful. Exactly what are you looking for? David R. Wells Member of, but not spokesman for the Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John L. Bishop" Subject: Titanic Stuff.... Chris, You can search for Harland & Wolfe - the builders of the Titanic.... they have plans for sale, or you can go to: http://www.maritimereplicas.com/titanic.htm They have "highly accurate 'General Arrangement' drawings". Good Luck, John *NOTE FROM LISTMASTER* Harland and Wolfe can be found on the Web at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/hwtech.serv/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Mike Settle Subject: FORRESTAL instruction STILL needed!! >> Still looking for instructions for the Revell kit. Please help me, Revell doesn't answer any of my three letters for help and I don't have a current kit with a good customer service phone number. Anything, xerox instructions or Revell point of contact would be greatly appreciated. << Their Customer Service telephone number is 1-800-833-3570. Mike Settle Our problems are mostly behind us. What we have to do now is fight the solutions. (Anon.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: RMS Titanic If memory serves White Star's House flag was a White star (suprise, suprise) on a red field. I don't know about a crest but I do recall reading that at the bow there was a raised 'boss' (gold with a white star) This was at the same height as the gold trim line that seperated the white upperwork from the black of the hull. I have a small scale drawing of Titanic from an old "Scale Model" article, if you would care to e-mail me a postal address I'll send you a photocopy. Les Pickstock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Graham Holmes Subject: Colour Police After reading Jon Warneke's post about his experience with the armour colour police and detail demons, I am glad that there are picky people out there like that! Their loss is shipbuilders gain, and we definitely came out better on than deal. Graham ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Percy, John" Subject: Navy Ship News! Got some news for you all. I live in South Massachuessetts, but get the Rhode Island Newspaper. Front page story: the USS Forrestall, USS Saratoga, and USS Iowa are all slated to move from the Philly naval depot to a deep water port in Rhode Island (at some Navy traing center). This news has received mixed emotions here. For the modeler, it means those of us in the NE will be able to get good views of these ships, right? Wrong! Though the ships are to be docked at the pier, the pier itself will not be open to the public! Argh! Long distance views will only be possible. However, there is a slim chance Forrestall will be bought be a preservation society, so maybe that will change. On a side note, it was reported that all 3 ships are in a deteriorated condition. Too bad, for these 3 ships are some of the most famous in America history. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Pat" Subject: USS Texas BB-35 I am looking for a model of the USS Texas BB-35. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Pat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: PERATHJEN Subject: Thanks Just wanted to thank everyone for the nice responses on my quest for a Coast Guard Cutter. Now does anyone know the url for Gold Medal Models? Thanks Paul *NOTE FROM LISTMASTER* You can find GMM at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/onetrack/goldmm.htm or in the Photo Etch section of NAVISMAGAZINE.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Dariusz Lipinski Subject: Card Models Hi Joanne, In response to your question about card models, I am aware of only one set of card models in 1:700 scale. The kit has been published in Netherlands ( I don't know the name of the publisher ) and contains three Dutch liners; Nieuw Amsterdam, MS Willem Ruys and MS Oranje. Waterline models printed in full colors. The name of the kit is; De Grote Drie. I saw only a small picture of them so I do not want to say how good they are, but on the photo they looked cute. You can buy it from the Paper Models International in US (http;//www.expresspages.com/p/papermodels/ ), Marcle Models in GB ( http;//www.bogo.co.uk/marcle/ ) or Scheuer & Struever in Germany ( http://www.scheuer-struever.de/ ). I think the price in US is about $16.00. I hope this was a help to you. Cheers Darek ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: DHJonesPSM Subject: Re: 1/700 ARLEIGH BURKE The kit will be of the DDG 54 CURTIS WILBUR, a flight II I think - kit number M-14. This news is from Skywave, not rumor. The kit is on the way, but I have not received it yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: DHJonesPSM Subject: Re: CGC EASTWIND The Revell BURTON ISLAND and Revell EASTWIND are different packaging of the same kit. The kits are identical, as for all practical purposes, are the ships. The "Wind" series were built for the Coast Guard, some later being turned over to the Soviet Union. BURTON ISLAND was one of two units built for the Navy and turned over to the Coast Guard in 1966. The ship was decom. in 1978. The other Navy unit was the EDISTO. For more information on these, check the two books by Robert L. Scheina (Publ. by USNIP) U.S.Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of World War II, and U.S. Coast Guard Cutters and Craft 1946-1990. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: WIND Class icebreakers: USN/USCG Ken Durling wrote: >> I own a copy of a very similar kit - Revell's WAGB "Burton Island", also in 1/300. Is this the same kit as "Eastwind"? It sure looks similar. The box says it. one of 6 of the class, was launched in 1946 as a *Navy* icebreaker, being turned over to the Coast Guard in the mid-60's. Can anyone verify that? << In 1965 the US Navy and the US Coast Guard agreed to the transfer of Navy Icebreakers to the USCG, which made the USCG the nation's sole icebreaking service. The ships transferred were: Edisto, Staten Island, Glacier, Southwind (was "Atka" when in USN), and Burton Island. More info: There were 7 Wind-class ships built during 1942-1946: Northwind, Eastwind, Southwind, Westwind, a second Northwind, Edisto, and Burton Island. Some were built for the USN, some for the Navy. Northwind (1), Southwind, and Westwind were originally destined for the CG, but were all transferred to the Soviet Union. The Coast Guard was given one of a set of three ships being built for the Navy, naming it Northwind. (The other two were Edisto and Burton Island.) In 1950, The soviets finally returned two of the 3 icebreakers (to US Navy service): Northwind and Southwind. Northwind was renamed Staten Island (so it wouldn't be confused with the Coast Guard's (new) Northwind and Southwind was renamed Atka. (Atka reverted to her original name when transferred back to the USCG as mentioned above.) When the ships were transferred to the Soviets, they had their 5 inch guns and radars removed, and instead were given 3 inch and 40mm guns. When the ships were all transferred to the USCG, they still had at least some of their original guns. All guns were removed as part of an international treaty regarding Antartica, I think. I sailed for a month on Northwind in 1985. She was on temporary duty in the Caribbean, serving as a mothership for smaller law enforcement Cutters. Man, did she roll in a seaway! I remember her bridgewings were huge, as they included space long ago occupied by 20mm gun tubs. The last of the wind class, I think she was retired in the late 80s. My references: US Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of WWII, and "Guardians of the Sea" (USCG history from 1915-1980). Hope this helps! Bill Michaels ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume