Subject: SMML04/08/98VOL261 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:46:06 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@wr.com.au --------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://warship.simplenet.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: MAS torpedo boats 2: Re: Shades of Grey 3: Re: Shades of Grey 4: Viribus Unitis 5: Butt Ugliness? 6: Re: Potemkin 7: A Humourous Anecdote re: "Flower" Class Corvettes 8: Best Looking Ship Awards 9: Re: Best Looking Ship Awards 10: BWN South Dakota 11: Dean's Marine 12: Re: Olympia. 13: Help Wanted RE DKM Deuschland colours 14: Re: Mission Capistrano 15: USS Harry S Truman 16: Typhoon and AOL 17: Re: Typhoon and AOL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: White Ensign Models new "AIRSTRIKE 700" Releases 2: Virtual mystery-inconsistant e-mail 3: Re File corruption problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Myhrman" Subject: MAS torpedo boats Hello, and thank you all for a great list! I'm searching for information, especially any type of drawings, on four Italian MAS (Motoscafi Anti Sommergibili) Torpedo Boats that were bought by the Swedish Navy in 1939. I'm sorry to say that I don't know the Italian designation of this specific MAS type, but the four boats were built by Baglietto and delivered around 1937 to the Italian Navy. The boats had a lenght of 17 meters, a speed of around 45 knots and were equiped with two 45 cm torpedo tubes. The Swedish boats had the numbers 506, 508, 511 and 524 when they served with the Italian Navy. Does anyone know these boats and possibly where I could find information? Best Regards Johan Myhrman Yokohama ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Shades of Grey >> Anyways speaking of grey, it seems I recall back about a month ago that somebody mentioned that Kriegsmarine ships had two shades of grey only slightly varying between the hull and superstructure. << The two shades of gray are so close together that in 1/350 scale it isn't noticeable. I did the same thing when I built my Bismarck and even when looking carefully, I still cannot see the difference. By the way, the supersructure from the deck up is the lightest shade of gray with the hull being the darker for surface camouflage. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Foeth" Subject: Re: Shades of Grey >> Anyways speaking of grey, it seems I recall back about a month ago that somebody mentioned that Kriegsmarine ships had two shades of grey only slightly varying between the hull and superstructure. As I am finally getting ready to paint the Deutchland I would like to know what shade of Testors should I be using and how much and what should I be tinting it with to obtain the above stated differences? What was lighter hull or superstructure? Also since this is a prewar depiction I would imagine I can just go ahead and use some form of wood coloring for the deck? << I think that was me, about those ship colors. I have studied some of my photographs of the Deutschland/Lutzow. I have several picures depicting her in 33/34, and no signs of a darker shade of grey can be seen on the hull. I believe the Graf Spee was painted in this was in 1938, and in that period the Deutschland probably was too. During 35/36, white cirles on dark turret tops were used for aircraft identification. I do not know which color was used, but this particular pattern originates from WWI, so you might have to look there for aircraft recognition symbols.During the spanish engagements, a black/white/red band was painted on the turrets. I have two pictures of her on 16-6-1937 showing these bands going over the turret tops, sloped sides, and verticle sides, on both turrets. Also, I have one aerial picure showing the tops of the 15-cm guns to be a dark color. As for testors, I've never seen a jar of it let alone used any of the colors. But I can give you two Ral-numbers Ral7000 and Ral7001, which are light greys used by the german navy during the war. I have a colored pic of the Graf Spee I could mail you, and then you can make your best guess. The wooden decks of the German warships were not painted as far as I know, and I have no pictures or references telling me otherwise, so lightly colored teak would do fine. >> Janes Battleships of the 20th Century it looks like the deck is buff and the superstructure color is more of a dark tan can anybody comment on this. << I do not have this particular book, as I find it too general to be usefull, and I have far better resources on most ships. Also, being a Jane, I think there will be quite some errors in it. I do have other publications by Jane, and judging by the quality of the pictures, I would certainly not try to deduct any color from it. As I have pointed out before, deriving colors from a black and white picture is best left to experts in that field. I have tried it sometimes, and proved to be more often wrong than right. I have two pictures of Tirpitz taken during day-time and in the evening and a lot light colored bulkheads suddenly turn black. There's no telling if you're right or wrong... >> And why was the slight difference in the grey used, I know it apparently went back to the Kaisers Navy could somebody give me the history on that if possible or was it a case of just because? << I believe this was more of a tradition. I'm sorry I can't give you anything more definite, but my money has been directed more towards the Bismarcks, so I do not yet own all the books on the Deutschlands. If you need any pictures, mail me at Foeth@wxs.nl . As for your second try, if you call your article "Shades of Grey" and start with a weird introduction, I skip your article immediately. Better use a more precise Header next time, like "Question on the Deutschlands painting". This will attract my attention stat. Evert-jan Foeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Tomas E. Tirado K" Subject: Viribus Unitis I am working in the very fine WSW kit in 1/700 scale, and I have some doubts. Railings: The kit does not include railings, so what type of railings can I use two or 3 bar? In the few photos I have seen, it seems to be two bars railings for the deck, but for the search lights nest may be 3-bar ? Ideas? Photos: Somebody knows a web site where I can find some photos of this ship? Rigging: Anybody have details for the rigging ? or knows where I can find a scheme? Thanks a lot Tomas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Butt Ugliness? In reference to the recent comments on the butt uglyness of certain modelling subjects: If we didn't love 'em, who would? Opinion is opinion, and when related to the esthetics of a particular subject should be taken with a grain of salt (and most of us are old salts anyway, eh?). Athough I have never met Jeff's aunt, I can empathize with him because of the distinct lack of asthetics in my own family tree. Personally, I feel that the uglier the boat, the greater the modeling challenge. Speaking of which, thanks for all the assistance on the DD1 USS Bainbridge color question. Now I just have to rig it. Where ever did my spider, Fang, get off to? (He's butt ugly too) Regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Potemkin Jon wrote: >> Hello, does anyone know of a source in the USA for the Ogonek kit in 1/400 of the Potemkin, I would like to try this kit, also has anyone built it up? How is it? Any real problems? Thanks in advance for any help. << I've built the Ogonek Potemkin. I agree that it's better to go looking for a Heller version. The Ogonek version that I got had a seriously twisted forward superstructure piece, and lots of flash. The mold alignment had clearly deteriorated over the years. I was able to clean it up with only moderate difficulty, but it's still extra effort. David R. Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Michelle Roth" Subject: A Humourous Anecdote re: "Flower" Class Corvettes Hello all, All this talk about those "beautiful" corvettes has prompted me to find an anecdote about the corvette "HMCS Periwinkle". (she might be HMS?) In Nathan Miller's "WAR AT SEA, A Naval History of World War II" he relates the following exchange between the newly commissioned corvette, (just joining her first convoy at Plymouth) and a seasoned destroyer..... Des. "What are you?" Corv. "Periwinkle" Des. "Can I stick a pin in you?" -this in reference to a shellfish that apparently could be eaten. Right, Caroline? Corv. "NO!! - I am a pale blue flower....not a shellfish! Des. "Then I will come over and fertilize you!!!" One can only imagine the kidding and razzing these corvette crews must have taken over the names of some of their ships.... with names like "Tulip", "Periwinkle", "Crocus", and........"Pansy"....GOD!!!!!! The humour certainly helped keep the sanity level up, one whould think..:-) Dare I sign this....SMML Humourist, (one of far too few) Eric Roth, Minden, Ontario, CANADA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Best Looking Ship Awards I had another thought (Two in one day? Must be some sort of record...), we all know what we consider butt ugly (my ex mother-in-law both physically and personality - ugh!). On a more positive note, perhaps we can send in our votes for what we consider the best looking ships. My vote naturally would go for the Yam---, well, you know. I also happen to think that any of the German WWII battleships and battle cruisers had particularly nice lines (though on the American side Betty Grable had better). Regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Re: Best Looking Ship Awards >> On a more positive note, perhaps we can send in our votes for what we consider the best looking ships. << IOWA CLASS - ALL CLASS! Greg (Lusting again) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Duane Fowler Subject: BWN South Dakota Hello James, Navis has a Blue Water Navy sale items page at: http://navismagazine.com/bwn-sale/bwn-sale.htm They list the South Dakota - 1944 for US$384.96 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Dean's Marine Naval Base Hobbies carry many 1/96 Dean Marines and Calder Craft ship kits. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Re: Olympia. Just wanted to tell you guys and gals that I got a $2.00 tour of the Olympia this past week, yep right down into the lowest deck up to the bridge. She is really something to see, but needs so much work it's a shame. There's rotten wood on the bridge deck and there's a bunch of junk being removed from below decks to reduce the fire hazard, plus the electrical system. In case anyone wonders I'm a Lieut. in the Phila. Fire dept. and this was a tour to show us about the ship and all it's strange little places and also where our water would go if we had to fight a fire on board. I will have some pictures available for scans when I return from vacation in 3 weeks, Hello Germany........... Hope to see some good things there. If anyone needs photos of certain areas I will try to get them, also the director made plans available of the ship to the fire companies which I have not seen yet but will try to get a copy of. Bye Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Malcolm Batchelor" Subject: Help Wanted RE DKM Deuschland colours Keith, I did a little digging and this is what I have found. The DKM pre-war and early war used a two tone scheme consisting of a light to medium blue grey on the hull; this was called Dunkelgrau 51 (Dark Grey 51) or Squirel Grey (aka fehgrau). On the superstructure the DKM used Hellgrau 50 (Light Grey 50) or Silver Grey (aka silbergrau). Decks were painted a Terfirnis 99 (Tar Finish) if steel (aka black), and natural wood if planked (usually the main and 01 decks). If you have access to the Plastic Ship Modeler Quarterly put out by Dan Jones, He has a excellent 3-part series of articles (with the help of Falk Pletcher) on DKM WW II camoflauge in the 1995/2; 1995/3; and the 1995/4 editions. Another good source is the "Anstriche und Tarnanstrich der deutschen Kriegsmarine" by Jung, Abendroth & Kelling (ADTK). It is in german, but with english captions on the pictures. Going through both of these I was unable to match the colours up to a Testors paint, but this is what I (they) were able to come up with - Dk.Grey 51 - Humbrol H175; Floquil 303257 (from PSM) or RAL 7000 (ATDK). Lt. Grey 50 - Humbrol H64 + 2 (drops? the article didn't say) of H34; Floquil 303341 (PSM) or RAL 7001 (ATDK). As to the exact paint scheme you need, that, as always would depend on the time frame you wish to portray. Late war she may have been an overall grey, or camoflauged in several colours, or early war she may have been two toned with or with out black & white "Baltic Stripes". Hope this will help you Stuart Batchelor (I've heard/seen rumours of DKM paint chips sometime in the future - please, please, please Santa Claus) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: Re: Mission Capistrano Björn Bäcklund wrote: >> I have an opportunity to buy the Revell Mision Capistrano and I know it's an old kit. But is it worth buying? I would really like an navy fleet oiler because it's rather different. << Dan Jones wrote a detailed article (2 parts, I think) on fixing up this the model a few months ago in "Model Ship Builder". Apparently the kit is not a very good representation of a real Navy WW2 oiler and will require a fair amount of work to turn it into one. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "mike.leonard" Subject: USS Harry S Truman I was in Norfolk, Virginia, this past weekend and noticed that the new carrier USS Harry S Truman was in port. I'll be back there next month for a week of active duty and, if the ship is still around, will try to find an opportunity to go aboard with a camera. Will let the list know if I'm successful, since there are a lot of CVN fans out there who will be interested in eventually doing a model. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Typhoon and AOL Hey Unfortunately the DML Typhoon in 1/350 is pretty inaccurate, but you can fix it by throwing away everything but the sail. And for those who have problems doing basic email on AOL, your problem isn't the email, it's AOL. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : Re: Typhoon and AOL Hi Bill, As you may gather, I am quite into this kit, so what else appart from the stern needs attention? I am finding good online reference a little difficult to find, so I appreciate your thoughts. Greg (Listmaster - SMML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dave Carter Subject: White Ensign Models new "AIRSTRIKE 700" Releases Hi Guys, Just released today... the following new subjects for your 1/700 Scale dioramas.... WEM AS 7096 Junkers Ju87 Stuka (3) £2.95 WEM AS 7097 Heinkel He 115 (3) £2.95 WEM AS 7098 Blohm und Voss BV 138 (3) £2.95 WEM AS 7102 Twin Mustang F82 (3) £2.95 WEM AS 7093 Bristol Blenheim (3) £2.95 WEM AS 7105 Boeing B17 Flying Fortress (2) £2.95 WEM AS 7036 Short Stirling Mark 1 (2) £2.95 (numbers in brackets) Restocks on FW200, Buccaneers, Sunderlands, and Sea Vixens The AIRSTRIKE range is available either direct from ourselves, post free, or from Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies. Caroline "Shiphead" Carter/nWMo and WEMblie http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Steven Rogers Subject: Virtual mystery-inconsistant e-mail Well Guys, The story gets weirder and weirder. The original transmission of Vol. 258 came in header only. "Arthur Subject: Re File corruption problems Never have had a problem getting the list in California. I've also down loaded it in Korea and didn't have any problems. (Gotta have in in the morning with my coffee, where ever I am) Regards, Duane Fowler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume