Subject SMML12/10/98VOL330 Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:36:32 +1000 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: an idea from a sometimes poster 2: Re: an idea from a sometimes poster 3: Copied plastic parts 4: Making Money out of Models 5: I'm Back 6: Paravanes 7: Content 8: Re: Content 9: Paravanes 10: Re: Sanding overpour 11: Re: Iron Shipright's customer support 12: Re: Skywave 1/700 5" twin turrets 13: Displacement of 1/96 USCG WHEC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: thunder.bearr@juno.com (Robert Vancel) Subject: an idea from a sometimes poster I think it would be a good idea in order to make reading easier, to put the name of the author of each post alongside the title. For example: 1. Armor Plating - Robert Vancel This would make it simpler, I think, to find the stuff you want to read by the people you want to read it by. (My english teacher is rolling over in her grave by now.) Let me know what you think. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject: an idea from a sometimes poster Hi Robert, Thats a good idea, only thing I would have to insist upon is that the author of the message adds their name to the subjet line themselves - I would prefer not to be responsible for this task. Greg (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Tim Perry Subject: Copied plastic parts I hope all us SMMLies appreciate Mike Czibovic's candor in his 'justification' of the use of Skywave parts as masters for his kits, but I still maintain this practise is simply wrong! I'd like to make the following points; 1 Firstly my perspective is likely very similar to Mike, as before getting my current 'proper' job as a resin caster in an industrial design studio, I ran my own model accessory concern called PP Models. I mastered, designed, marketed, the whole shooting match for nearly 16 years so I think I can speak with some knowledge on the matter. I have worked in resin, etchings, white metal castings, printing, vacforming, PC graphics, packaging and all the other trades that Jack must master when running a small business. (True, PP Models folded two years ago, but the reasons for that were not related to model mastering or production techniques; there should be a book written about it one day, but that is another story....) 2 No matter how you justify your use of someone else's products, if it was without explicit permission, it is wrong. The part designs did not belong to you, someone else had put effort and expenditure in bringing them into existance, and as a commercial operation they should expect some return on their investment. The scale of the operation is entirely incidental. Get caught shoplifting and then try using a similar defence in a court of Law and see what happens! ("It was only one TINY diamond, your Honour! Not a whole necklace!" "Guilty! Mind your fingers! CLANG!") 3 Alternatively, turn the situation around. Imagine someone with the neccessary skills (aquired, perhaps, spending 16 years running their own model aircraft accessory business) decides to set up a model ship range. Having made a few hulls and deck houses, the task of churning out a load of turrets looses its appeal, and with time pressing, a show date approaching, a quick solution is needed. What luck, by chance a couple of Corsair Armada kits hove into view, and guess what, they have just exactly the right turrets for my (oops, I mean this hypothetical new manufacturer!) kits. Plop, into rubber! Splish, splash, a bit of resin and there, my (Doh, there I go again!) his kits are in production! Look at the time I've saved! And time is money, so they say! Shall I bother asking first? Nah, it's less than 20% of the original, and someone on the internet said that was OK... Shall I offer to pay for the time and effort I've saved myself? Nah, they have never complained, even thought they distribute my kits over there.... There Mike, not so attractive when the tables are turned, is it. I know, I have been in just this situation where my own designs were lifted wholesale by another company. It is very unpleasant to be told by a lawyer (thank the Lord a Brit one on only £125 an hour, and not a US one on a little bit more!!) that the costs of gaining a judgement far outweighed the likely reclamation of lost profits. I suspect that is why no-one has yet been called to book over the habit of lifting parts from kits, and has nothing to do with tacit agreement! 4 I completely agree with Chungs wise suggestion of obtaining a license to sell the original parts. This has so many obvious benefits! No doubt having an existing trade relationship, you would get a good deal. You would not have to go the considerable effort and expense of casting such titchy things yourself, which you will agree is a royal pain in the rear end! Your kits would be 'detail-consistant' with other models in your customers fleet. You could put the effort saved into your next product, increasing your revenues, and finally you could bask in the smug glow of someone who knows they are acting in a completely honest fashion! Ooooh, its enough to make me want to start my own range for real again! 5 Bottom line, I suppose it comes down to ones own philosophy. For myself, I have always tried to make the best model I can, within my own limitations of skills and facilities. Knowing that, in terms of detail and scale effect, a mix of resin casting, etching or white metal parts could beat the pants off any plastic injection moulding, I always looked for the 'best' way of making a part for a model. Saving time, and to some extent saving money, simply did not come into the equation. Why palm the customer off with a copy of someone elses products, when an original design could be more accurate, better detailed, much more realistic? To quote the pointy-eared one, "It is illogical." Finally, thank you so much for your pity, but I suspect it will be wasted on me. Unless of course, you do 1:350 Royal Navy Landing Craft from WWII, or perhaps the odd Flower Class Corvette. Nah, not even then! I will build my own, and who knows, they might just end up in my $80 000 resin casting machine at work...... Respectfully as well, Tim Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tim Perry Subject: Making Money out of Models Hi Caroline, I was once told by a very wise old modelmaker, that the only way to get rich at this game was to start very rich. Perhaps I am a living testiment to the wisdom of this comment. Perhaps I am just bitter and twisted! Take your pick! I am enjoying modelling as a hobby once again though. Through plastic card to enlightenment....... Tim Perry (Ex PP Models) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Alberto Rada Subject: I'm Back Hi It’s nice to be back On September 2nd my family and me went on our summer vacation, we had a wonderful journey visiting Florida, The Carolinas and Georgia in the USA, lots of beautiful landscapes, peace and a wonderful trip in a hot air balloon. In Charleston we visited William Blackmore from Cottage Industry Models, it was quite an experience seeing him at work preparing his new releases. Upon return to Caracas I found that a lightning struck pretty close to our home, putting out of order two telephones and my computers modem and had disk ( erasing all the information in the process ) Today I finally installed the new components and can say HOLA I’m back SALUDOS Alberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "arthur" Subject: Paravanes I have the 1/2" :1' scale plans of the minelayer Manxman. It shows the rigging of paravanes in great detail. If anyone is interested in a copy give me a bell. No I am not breaking copyright in saying this. Arthur NZBG UIN 1298989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "arthur" Subject: Content With 30 something posts to the latest issue this must be the biggest one yet. Congratulations! I have been lurking since the beginning to pick up the extra tips and tricks that cannot be found elsewhere and this list has been invaluable. I congratulate the webmaster for his foresight and his moderating expertise. Thank you one and all for making this list such a pleasure to read. I have a concern in that the length of postings is now getting to the stage where I have to reserve a special time to read them. This is, in my mind, a great place to be. I understood from the outset that the list was pertinent to static plastic modelling and was happy to lurk and listen and learn, although I build in 1/96 and 1/72 scale myself. I now see that big scale is starting to appear on the list. For me, this is fantastic, as I can get all that I want to know from the one list instead of subscribing to half a dozen and having to put up with a lot of infighting, just to get that one particular piece of information that I am looking for. I particularly appreciate the daily postings and the ability to contact individuals privately on a particular subject. I am all for this to continue, and have started responding to posts when I think I may have something of use to offer. Will the list continue to grow into a broad range of scales, or will it focus on static plastic/resin construction? Arthur NZBG UIN 1298989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject: Content Hi Arthur, >> With 30 something posts to the latest issue this must be the biggest one yet. Congratulations! << Not quiet, there have been bigger, but still a great effort by all, Well Done! Its great to see the list doing so well these days, it just proves to me once again that there is a need for SMML. In comparison to other subjects, there just isnt enough web based info for shipmodellers. >> I have a concern in that the length of postings is now getting to the stage where I have to reserve a special time to read them. This is, in my mind, a great place to be. << The length of some posts (to me) is a reflection of how strongly some readers feel about a specific subject - and its great to see, whether for or against, people are still using SMML for the right reasons. SMML is still making people think, question, and above all - LEARN! And thats what its all about! >> Will the list continue to grow into a broad range of scales, or will it focus on static plastic/resin construction? << Well thats really up to the readers - there are no scale restrictions, whether it be wood, resin, plastic, scratchbuilt etc... the idea is, if it floats, we can talk about it. 1/350 and 1/700 plastic and resin will most likely always dominate the list, because they generally are dominant in the hobby, but if you want to talk large scale - go right ahead! (I will be chating in 1/72 soon if Mike Kear can convince me to go shopping at AFP:-) Thanks for your kind words, and its great to see you posting - do it again sometime:-) Greg (Listmaster - SMML) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Michael Connelley Subject: Paravanes Hello: Thanks to everyone who replied about my question on the Arizona's paravanes. If you don't mind I'm sure I'll have plenty of more questions as I continue work on the Arizona. Now I know more than I ever wanted to know about paravens and how they work. To: Bradford Chaucer The URl you're looking for is: http://members.xoom.com/Wespe/ If you want just the Texas, go to: http://members.xoom.com/Wespe/TX.html Again, thanks to all. Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Sanding overpour >> It took me about 4.5 hours to completely sand off all of the over pour down to the where it needed to be in order to mate the two halves together. I would use the #80 grit until I got real close to the end and then switch to the #150 in order to smooth out the resin and finish. << I bought a hand held belt sander from Micro Mark several years back and I wouldn't give it up for anything. This little jewel with heavy grit belts goes through resin over pour like **^##!$& through a goose! They aren't cheap since you need to buy the speed regulator with the tool, but it will work on all other Micro Mark tools as well. Also, if you build vacuum formed models it will grind down plastic and save many tedious hours. That little bugger is invaluable. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Iron Shipright's customer support >> They shipped several sprues worth. No questions or requests for payment. Thanks too for including your price list. I'm working on the order now. << I'll second that. It's wonderful to see people who stand behind their product. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Skywave 1/700 5" twin turrets Didn't Skywave redesign their 1/700 5" twin turrets for the Cleveland and Miami kits and for the E-9 U.S. WWII weapons set? They look different to me, anyway. If they really have been redone, are the new ones more accurate than the old ones? Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Displacement of 1/96 USCG WHEC I should have been more exact-- 5 pounds is what I have to add to the hull to get it to the waterline. I marked the hull at the water line with a couple of pieces of tape. I then added ballast until the model floated at the waterline. I then removed the weight, and weighed it. Actually the displacement will be closer to 7 pounds, total. The empty fiberglass hull with the stuffing tubes installed accounted for 2 pounds, leaving me 5 to spend on the rest of the model. Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume