Subject SMML29/10/98VOL347 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:07:31 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Indiana 2: Re: USS Helena 3: Re: DAVE KRAKOW COMMENTS ON 1250 MODELS: 4: Kormoran 5: New Academy 1/400 Titanic Review 6: Re: Mystery ship 7: Modern Warship Fleet 8: Indiana? 9: HMS Kelly 10: Hawaiian Trip Report 11: FSM Survey 12: clevland class light cruiser 13: Re: An amazing SF Bay sight 14: Re: An amazing SF Bay sight 15: American Civil War Era Ships - References? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Looking for these two kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Fox, Jowfx@webtv.net Subject: Re: USS Indiana Just a note. The ship you are referring to is the USS Indianapolis (CA-35), not USS Indiana (BB-58). The Indianapolis dropped off her cargo at Tinian on 26 July 45. She then proceeded to Guam. She departed Guam on 28 July bound for Leyte. Just after midnight on the morning of 30 July, I-58 put 2 torpedos into her. She went down in 12 minutes, with 800 men out of a complement of 1200 going into the water. On 3 August, 316 survivors are picked up. Regards John Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Frank and Carol Berger, fcberger@netnitco.net Subject: Re: USS Helena Sorry not to have responded sooner. Other commitments have kept me away from the computer. As to the Helena, there are articles in both Steve Ewing's American Cruisers of World War II and M.J Whitley's Cruisers of World War II. However, the best source of photos I've found so far is from The Floating Drydock. They have a series of dockside photos taken in June 1942 at Mare Island. There are shots of the bow, midships and aft end of the superstructure that reveal a wealth of detail. They have a website at: http://www.usbusiness.com/drydock Which kit of the Helena are you building? I am currently 80% complete on a Classic Warships 1/700 scale kit. I am using both the Tom's Modelworks Brooklyn Class photoetch sheet and the Gold Medal Models USN Cruiser/Destroyer photoetch set. If you would like, e-mail me. I would be happy to pass along what I have learned building the kit and using the photoetch. As far as the paint she wore, I've only been able to find photos of her in single color Measures. Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: b29@ix.netcom.co Subject: Re: DAVE KRAKOW COMMENTS ON 1250 MODELS: Dave, I certainly agree that it would not be wise to attempt to make a model solely from the drawings in the Groner books. I didn't suggest that, and I didn't understand your comments about the great availability of source materials on U.S. ships and the dearth of such on German ships to relate solely and specifically to PLANS for model making. As one who produces my own masters for mass production sale of ship models in 1250 scale, I can say that for any good model to be made for mass production, you need good plans, and those usually aren't available in most of the books on U.S. or other nations ships. A.D. Baker III, who has been kind enough to loan me some plans, reports that neither the USNIP nor any other publisher has expressed an interest in publishing plans. They say, that there's not enough interest in them. Anyway, I don't wish to digress from the thrust of my previous comments. As for your critique of the paint jobs on 1250 models, and the "blobs" for AA guns, I think that you've strayed very far from the subject. My letter wasn't a defense of 1250 scale models. It was about your statement that the U.S. has provided so much source material, and the Germans so little. I still stand by my remarks. However, as to your comments on the paint jobs, it is up to the individual collector to decide whether he wants to do additional paint work. The cost for the manufacturer to produce a model with a full paint job is often prohibitive. At the very least, it must be passed on to the customer. But, Dave, what's wrong with an all grey paint job? That's no more an impediment to the 1250 collector, than it is for you to have to assemble your 1:350 scale models. Presumably that isn't a negative to you. So why is an all grey warship a problem? For that matter, would it be a problem if the ship came entirely UNpainted (as some, such as Len Jordan resin models do)? Some of us enjoy taking the time and effort to do custom paint work, including camouflage work on our models. We find that fun and challenging, just like you enjoy assembling and painting your larger scale kits. And for those who don't want to, they can be content to leave them grey. If you have any doubts about what can be done with custom paint work just check out the models pictured in the http://warship.simplenet.com website on the 1250 page. Finally, as regards AA guns being "blobs" I don't agree. On the best of the commercially made 1250 scale models, guns down to 20 mm are clearly distinguishable. And on the others, anyone who wants to take the time to upgrade their models can do exactly what you guys do with the larger scale kits: make their own AA guns, etc. If you guys can do it, so can we. Paul Jacobs 1250 Editor Warship.simplenet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Linda and Dale Ikuta, ikuta@hooked.net Subject: Re: Kormoran Hello All! I'm interested in plans for some of the raider ships. Is the Kormoran available somewhere? Dale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler, dlfowler@apple.com Subject: New Academy 1/400 Titanic Review I was recently in Korea and picked up a few of the new Academy 1/400 Titanic kits. After comparing it with the Minicraft 1/350 kit I saw a number of similarities and a number of differences. Some good, some, well... Overall, the new kit is a much sharper and finer casting (makes sence). The hull is much better and the forward well deck gunnels are the correct height (A major problem with the Minicraft kit). Much of the detail on the bow which was missing on the Minicraft kit has been added to this kit, although the breakwater is still angled too far aft and the bow anchor pit isn't quite right. The decking has molded in wood grane which, although nice, makes corrections a pain (all the benches are molded into the deck - OUCH!). The A-Deck around the aft Grand Staircase has been corrected as have a number of misplaced doors and windows. Much bulkhead detail has been added too, like lights and small vents. The Ventilators are mostly copied from the original kit, as are the stairs and compass platform. The bridge is still rounded and the forward stairwells still have the infamous hoods. The lifeboat davits are much better and the boats themselves are very nice and include benches with separate canvase hoods (a plus for those wanting to convert to the HMTS Olympic), although two colapsables are missing and, like the original kit, there are no smaller cutters. The railings, though are perhaps the best I have seen in plastic. Brass would be finer, but these are really nice and preshaped (no need for heating and folding). Unfortunately the stairs are pretty clunky. The skylights are still wrong and the Grand Staircase domes are still round. The worst part of the kit are the funnels. The ladder suports are huge and have to go. The ladders themselves are ok. There are no whistles. As a trivia note: the box art shows smoke coming from all four stacks. Over all, I'd say that it is a much better kit than the Minicraft. It is newer, cleaner, has some corrections, more detail and fewer problems. Many interior walls are included with the interior deck plans embossed onto the decks, and the grand staircases are present. This kit is obviously a reduced copy of the Minicraft, but goes a long way to improving on it. As I said, I obtained a case of them (8). If anyone is interested, send me a note. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Daniel H. Jones, dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Mystery ship >> Anyone know of an HMT Rowenda(sp?) transport lost with most or nearly most all hands? Was she a merchant navy ship crewed by the RN? << This is indeed a mystery - if the spelling is correct. I have not been able to find ANY listing (sunk or otherwise) of a ship with this name in the WW II period. The closest I came is HMS ROWENA, an ALGERINE clas minesweeper - obviously not the one. There was a SS RAVENNA lost in WW I (torpedoed) in the Mediterranean, again it is unlikely as a match. Now that you have my interest.... can you give us any more information Gene? Dan Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: gettyup, gettyup@gte.net Subject: Modern Warship Fleet Hey Guys!! I'm a new subscriber to SMML and need some imformation about the where abouts of a couple ships. I've been working on this fleet of modern warships and would like to finish. I have located most of the ships that I am using to put this fleet together. The vessels that I have a problem locating is a Supply Ship and a Oiler Ship. I'm building 1/700 scale and would like to find these ships in the same scale. I've been using plastic kits and would like to use the same if possible for the two that I'm seeking to find. If any of you can tell me where it may be possible to find these, I would appreciate it mensly. I Thank You!! Randy Simonson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Norman Samish, ncsamish@ieway.com Subject: Indiana? The History channel has a show, "Rain of Ruin" on the Manhattan project and the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombs. In it, they show some color footage of the INDIANA as she brought the plutonium to Tinian Island. This was eight(?) days before she was torpedoed. David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ 9) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: HMS Kelly I just got my 1/700 HMS Kelly in the mail yesterday and I must say that this is WEM's best effort (until the next kit shows up of course). The problem with the sheerline which plagued the Kashmir is gone and the portholes are all drilled out, which will save us time. I do have a question about the paint scheme worn by Kelly, as she was Lord Mountbatten's flagship and would no doubt be in Mountbatten Pink at some stage in her career. WEM's excellent instructions show Kelly in Admiralty Medium Grey, though. I am assuming (Alan Raven may enlighten us) that Kelly may have been in AP507B when she was lost off Crete. Can any SMMLers help with the various schemes and dates? Also, what is a good mix for Mountbatten Pink in acrylic paint (either Tamiya or Polly Scale)? Finally, I'm in agreement with Tom Kremer. A good Sydney kit is overdue, but B-Resina? This would mean an original master, not a reduced Airfix kit. Perhaps we can see WSW/Doc-Modell quality if this kit comes out, although I hope WEM comes out with a Sydney soon (please Caroline!). Finally, about the lack of survivors and bungling, the case of the Indianapolis comes to mind, especially with the bungled rescue efforts and the travesty at the court-martial (Captain Hashimoto as a procesution witness against Captain McVay of the Indy? Give me a break. Almost like the fox blaming the chicken for allowing it to raid the coop). Do any SMMLer's know of the effort of a teen-ager in Indiana (I believe) who is trying to petition the Congress and Navy to overturn the conviction and clear the record and restore the honor of Captain McVay. I remember reading about it a few months ago, but have heard nothing since. Anyone have any new info? Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Duane Fowler, dlfowler@apple.com Subject: Hawaiian Trip Report As I said in my other note, I was recently in Korea on business. On the way back it turned out that I could save the company $200 by detouring through Hawaii. Ah rats... Anyway, I spent some time at the Arizona Memorial and the Submarine Museum next door. I was really impressed by the models on display! At the Arizona Memorial there were 1/96 models of the Arizona in 1941 and as she appears today as well as an outstanding 1/96 model of the Akagi. Unfortunately the display rooms were way too dark. I wish I had brought my Maglite! At the Submarine Museum there were other great models but the real show stealer was a 1/32 cutaway model of a Balao class submarine. It was incredible. The detail on was so complete that it looked like you could actually flush the heads! I think I spent longer examining the model than I did on the actual sub. I stopped by the US Coast Guard base where I used to be stationed in 1977 to take a look around and true to Coastie form, they invited me aboard. Not only were photos allowed, they were actively encouraged (I promised more than a few 8X10s for the folks back home). The 41317 which I was on 21 years ago was still there and looked very similar (new electronics but I recognized a couple of the dents and a bullet hole). I promised that when I finish the model of it I'll do another for them. I have to apologize to Burl Burlingame because I never got around to stopping in and saying hello. I was just so taken by everything else! I almost got aboard the Missouri but I got there too late in the day. Hope the photos turn out. Best regards, Duane (Coasties never die, they just slide a bit deeper in the bath tub) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: FSM Survey To All SMMLers: Got the latest issue of Fine Sclae Modeler today. They're having the annual survey of most wanted injection plastic kits. I guess if we want our choices of ships known, we had better chime in. Could Tamiya be persuaded to produce that 1/350 Essex (or a better 1/700 Essex) they're supposed to release or a Scharnhorst/Gneisenau in 1/350. How about a modern 1/700 New Jersey by Tamiya? I could think of more ships, but it's as good a time as air our opinions. Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: perk, perk@netins.net Subject: clevland class light cruiser just wanting to know if you would know where i could pick up a clevland class light cruiser. i know they are out there, but i dont know where to look thanks perk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: tomkremer, tomkremer@ap.net Subject: Re: An amazing SF Bay sight >> I was out flying yesterday, and returning to the Bay Area flying in over the Golden Gate we saw two old style square riggers sailing in the bay - not Tall Ships, but more like Napoleonic era brigs. They were sailing abreast and presented an amazing sight! As we flew past - being informed the while by ATC that there was a 1600' flight restriction in effect (damn!) - we saw a puff of smoke emerge from one of the ships. She had clearly fired a gun! Must have been some sort of reenactment. << One of these (the one with the tanbark spanker) was surely the Hawaiian Chieftan out of Sausalito. It is a steel "replica" of a trading sloop that serves as a pretty popular charter/party boat and they are out on the bay firing their guns for the amusement of guests daily. As for the identity of the other boat there are a number of possibilities. There are locally half a dozen schooners in the 80 to 100 foot range that could cross yards and carry square sail on the fore mast. Best regards, Tom Kremer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: An amazing SF Bay sight >> I was out flying yesterday, and returning to the Bay Area flying in over the Golden Gate we saw two old style square riggers sailing in the bay - not Tall Ships, but more like Napoleonic era brigs. They were sailing abreast and presented an amazing sight! As we flew past - being informed the while by ATC that there was a 1600' flight restriction in effect (damn!) - we saw a puff of smoke emerge from one of the ships. She had clearly fired a gun! Must have been some sort of reenactment. There was nothing in today's paper. Any of you SF Bay denizens know what was going on? One of the ships had pearly white sails, the other had white sails on the foremast, dirty brown on the main, and i couldn't tell if she had anythingset on the mizzen (if there WAS a mizzen.) Also, what's the name of the wooden ship NG and how do I get there? I'd like to ask them, too. << One of the ships is the "Pride of Baltimore", not sure what the other one is. They are a common sight on the bay, at least during summer/fall. I have seen then on a number of occasions while waiting on the Golden Gate Bridge for a ship to pass under. I have seen the mock battle a couple of times also. I believe that one of the ships is based out of Marin country, and the other can be found on the San Francisco waterfront in the Fisherman's Wharf Area. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Alberto Rada, rada@argonaut.net Subject: American Civil War Era Ships - References? Hi Rob, Gang The Naval Institute Press has recently released: Lincoln's Navy, The ships, men and organization 1861-65 by Don L Camey at $ 39.96 I have just ordered it, so when it arrives I'll let you know, it indicates 240 pages and 200 illustrations They also list this book: A HISTORY OF THE CONFEDERATE NAVY By Raimondo Luragh A world-renowned scholar shatters myths about the Confederate Navy in this landmark study and finally gives the Southern navy proper credit for its strategic successes, international range, and technical advances. He disproves that the South's ironclads, for example, were a failure and that the blockade was the navy's single strategic aim. 1996. 536 pages. 24 photos. 19 maps. Bibliog. Notes. Index. 6" x 9". ISBN 1-55750-527-6. List price: $39.95 (USCFS) I have in my bookshelve and can recommend: C.S. Ironclad Virginia and U.S. Ironclad Monitor with Data and References for Scale Models by Sumner B. Besse This was published (and bought) at The Mariners' Museum in Newport News, Virginia Its a very short booklet but has some very good line drawings and details on both ships. it costs only $ 10.95 and the Mariners' Museum address is: 100 Museum Drive Newport News Virginia 23606 3759 (in case of difficulty obtaining it, I can lend it to you) Civil War Chronicles Naval Warfare, Courage and Combat on the Water by John C. Wideman Mainly some very good photos and paintings, no drawings good text The Confederate Navy A pictorial history by Philip Van Doren Stern Very good photos , paintings ( black and white ) and some simple drawings Conway's History of the Ship Steam, Steel & Shellfire The Steam Warship 1815 - 1905 Is pretty good with good photos and some drawings. Certainly some other members can add some more books on the subject and we can post the result in Warship? SALUDOS Alberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: LeadSled58@aol.com Subject: Looking for these two kits Ahoy mates, I am searching for the following two kits for a friend of mine. Both are modern aircraft carriers and something needed in the 1/600 to 1/720 range. USS Eisenhower USS Enterprise I would like to buy or trade for them, if you are in the US. Thanks in advance. Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume