Subject SMML10/11/98VOL359 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:03:00 +1100 (EST) shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/700 Aircraft 2: British Ton Class Minesweeper 3: Re: 1/700 A/C 4: FAVORITE BOOKS AND DECK COLORS 5: Conway Maritime Books 6: Re: PP 7: Re: small aircraft models 8: Re: small decals 9: David vs Goliath a la espaņola 10: Revell/Revell-Germany Custeau's Calypso 11: Re: SOW 12: Re: Zhong Shan 13: titanic 14: Opening large SMML files 15: Re: Ship measurements 16: Re: Phalanx gun 17: Re: David & Goliath -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML Date Volume Numbering again. 2: Re: MANXMAN plans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Donna Ogilvie Subject: Re: 1/700 Aircraft The 1/700 scale aircraft can be used very nicely in a number of different ways. I have used some with 1/700 ships in attack or rescue dioramas. I've also built a large scale model of an aircraft, mounted it on a base and in one 2" x 3" corner built a section of an airfield to show the operating environment. Mainly I use them in small independent airfield sense with PE figures and Skywave or scratch built building or hangers. It's easy to display 3 or 4 B-24's on a taxi strip and put it on a shelf, Try that in 1/48th! My next project is a section of German seadrome using some of WEM's A/C. Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rod Hinchco" Subject: British Ton Class Minesweeper Does anyone know of any models available, plans etc? Would appreciate feed back. Regards Rod Hinchco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JGordon262@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/700 A/C I'm a big proponent of seriously built 1/700 aircraft. These tiny models can be finished to very high standards. For example, two of my favorites in my collection are my JU 52G from Skywave, and its cousin, the Arado 196 from a German warship kit. The JU 52 has the most delicate corrugated wing and fuselage detail, just lovely. I added about two dozen parts to the JU 52-- floats, float struts, photoetched props, antennaes, guns, exhaust pipes. I drilled out the engine nacelles and the fuselage gun position. All the markings are hand painted. The Arado got the same treatment, but with open cockpit representation as well. The resulting models are just marvelous little gems that have a certain "something" the larger scales lack. I'd love to see an IPMS aircraft category for 700 scale. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ray Lagomasino" Subject: FAVORITE BOOKS AND DECK COLORS Some outstanding books have been mentioned in several SMML Vol's. A couple of books I'd like to add are two by Mr. W.G. Winslow: "The Ghost That Died at Sundra Strait"--the heroic story of USS HOUSTON (CA-30), and "The Fleet the Gods Forgot"--the story of the U.S. Asiatic fleet and the ABDA command during the first few bloody months of the Pacific War. Mr. Winslow was a former SOC-3 pilot on HOUSTON. He was there from the onset of hostilities, to the end of the war as a POW, captured after HOUSTON sank on 28 Feb 42. Of note, both books are still available from the USNI. With regard to a comment made in SMML 8/11/98/Vol 377: >> Absolute disaster, do *not* read, burn on sight: "The battle of the Leyte Gulf", Thomas J Cutler << I respectfully disagree with the reviewer. Thomas Cutler (retired Surface Warfare Officer, former USNA history professor, and now a Naval War College non-resident seminar professor) wrote an outstanding book on the greatest naval battle in history (yes, it even included Yamato and Musashi!). The book covers not only the battle (very well I might add--e.g. what it was like on the "small boys" as they took on Japanese heavies during the Battle of Samar ) but deals with the strategy and policy questions such as why did the Philippines Campaign happen at all, as well as ADM Halsey's fateful decision ("Where is TF 34--The World Wonders"). This book is highly recommended--entertaining, as well as great historical analysis. Now for the transition to "Deck Colors". I read with great interest the thread on GRAF SPEE's deck colors. An old book (pub date 1983) I have--"The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships" by Mr. Tony Gibbons, has color illustrations of BB's from 1860 to 1983. One illustration is an overhead view of DEUTSCHLAND, showing much of the steel decks (above the main deck) in a red-brown color. Not sure how accurate this book is; however, the same illustrations are now available in a Jane's Publication titled Jane's Battleships' of WWII (I hope the title is correct). Sincerely, Ray Lagomasino -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Conway Maritime Books Folks: Last year I ordered the Conway Annual, Anatomy of BB Fuso, and 2 softback books on the Tirpitz and Scharnhorst from Conways M/O catalog. I got the annual book, but does anyone know if the others have been published yet? Normally at this time of year, Conway send out their next years catalog, has anyone seen it or know if their will be an annual for 1999? I would have examined the Brasseys/Conways website, but its 'down' at the present moment. Thanks for any info - I need my annual Xmas pressie...... Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Re: PP It stands for 'between perpendiculars'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: small aircraft models Just for the heck of it I took several WEM 1/700 aircraft to my last model meeting and they were "the rage"! Everyone loved them. I took one each P-26 Peashooter, A-8 Shrike, Panther and Cougar. I had etched brass props and landing gear from WEM installed (also clipped some of the WEM "v" lanking hooks to make wing struts for the shrike) and all painted and decaled as well as many 1/72 aircraft. I set them on a mirror so the undersides of the wings could be read. Besides insignia, you can clearly read U.S.Army under the wings of the first two and NAVY on the panther's side and MARINES on the cougar.I Have a bunch more to do. I do not think that this will start a new IPMS category but they are FUN to play around with. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: small decals The solution is to make your own decals. I have made some for 1/700 aircraft. You almost have to use magnification to read some of them but they are there! I agree that trying to come up with a decal sheet to solve everyone's problem is not practical. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: David vs Goliath a la espaņola David vs Goliath May I suggest thr figthing between Sloop Dato and Battleship Jaime I, Aug 1936, Algeciras? Algeciras port was the receiving end of the convoys transporting the African Army to the Peninsula. Previously, on 5th August, Dato was the only escort to an important convoy and, as such, she fight against republican destroyers. As reprisal of the success of the crossing of the Gibraltar Strait by nacionalist convoys, Jaime I ( 15.700 tonns. 8 X 30,5 cm) and other ships were sent to bombard Ceuta and Algeciras and, as Dato(1.335 tonns 4 X 10,1 cm) was again the only warship available on the latter, she fought against the battleship until, disabled, she was beached to avoid her total loss. Un saludo Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Robert "Hollywood" Vancel/nWMo Subject: Revell/Revell-Germany Custeau's Calypso Tried this on RMS (rec.models.sandbox...er...scale) and got no response. I have a customer looking for the Revell Jaques Cousteau (sp) Calypso. This guy is an incredible modeler and I've known him for years. He was diagnosed with a disease that is slowly robbing him of his sight. About fifteen years ago, he built a radio control version of the Minicraft Titanic. He is such an afficianado of this ship that he has a room dedicated to Titanic and even owns a dinner plate from the ill-fated ship (given to him by John Carpenter). He needs a model of the Calypso because he is expanding his collection to include other ill-fated ships. Thanks Robert "Hollywood" Vancel/nWMo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "arthur" Subject: Re: SOW My apologies to one and all. Ships of the World can be accessed through: http://ships.acvs.com/sow/homee.html Arthur NZBG icq 1298989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Re: Zhong Shan Professor Stein: The kit in question may or may not represent the subject it purports to. You mentioned it's a Zhengdefu kit at roughly 1/180 scale. Another Chinese manufacturer, C.C. Lee has a kit of the "Zhong Shan" in about the same scale which in reality is a model of a smaller river gunboat and not the Zhong Shan. Plastic Ship Modeller, Issue 17 (Dan Jones may correct me on the issue number) has a review of the C C Lee kit and things to correct. It is quite possible that this is a repackaged Lee kit, although without looking at the actual contents or the instructions,. I can't make any judgments. Concerning the attempts to turn the Zhong Shan into a national monument, this has been an on and off project for three years. The wreck was discovered in the Yangtze river off the city of Wuhan (temporary capital of the Nationalists after the fall of Nanjing before they retreated to Chungking) in 1995. I was working in China at the time and a big deal was made on national television about raising the wreck. I am surprised that nobody wanted to move the wreck earlier as it was a potential navigation hazard for inland shipping. Also, I can think of better ways for the Chinese government to spend their money than raising a well over 50 year old wreck (personal opinion of mine-don't flame me!) Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: bg Subject: titanic I am interested in building the TITANIC, the only kit I see available in the local hobby shops is the one by Minicraft. After perusing the instructions, I find they are not very clear. Are there any other kits Of the titanic available, or can anyone give me some more info. Appreciate any suggestions I can get. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Denis and Marilyn Campbell Subject: Opening large SMML files John Snyder suggested using your word processor to open large text files and I generally agree but if you are going to use Word 97, be sure you are running a good anti-virus program. There is a virus that can infect the macros in Word. The small word processors included with WIN95 can open all but the really big text files (use Wordpad, as it is slightly more accomplished than Notepad) and none of the other word processors on the market seem to have been affected by viruses - yet, just Word97. I'm fairly sure you don't have to worry about viruses from SMML but you may open text files from other sources and should be careful with Word97. Denis Campbell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com (Daniel H. Jones) Subject: Re: Ship measurements >> Also, with respect to figures on the length of a ship, what does "pp" mean. << Generally this refers to the length between perpendiculars. For a practical application to most general arrangement plans, it also usually equals (not exact but very close) the length of the hull at the waterline. Most modern references (if they are any good) give both the length between perpendiculars (or waterline) and length overall (expressed as o.a. or o.a.l.). The difference can be significant when dealing with older ships that may have a clipper bow or overhanging transom stern. This brings up an interesting problem for modelers who might be interested in researching a relatively obscure ship and would happen to refer to any of the older established references that were published before the Second World War. Annuals such as United State Merchant Ships, Brassey's, early Jane's, etc. generally do not specify which system of measurement they are using. In most cases it is the length between perpendiculars that is used for the registered length of a vessel and it is the registered dimensions that are usually listed in sources like this. Width (or beam) presents another problem (for merchant vessels) as there is more than one way of measuring this. In the case of side wheel paddle wheelers the hull at its widest is the point measured, with no allowance being made for the overhanging paddle boxes. I will not go into detail about the various methods of measurement (unless requested). Suffice it to say that in many of these annuals and compilations such as Lloyd's List, the measurements are not as simple or straight forward as they might appear. They are complied and defined for purposes that are far removed from the modeler's needs. Shipping company histories (even modern ones on occasion) are also careless when it comes to specifying dimensions. If the length given is not defined it is almost always the length between perpendiculars (registered length) that is listed. A few kits in resin have been marketed that are noticeably short in length but otherwise appear to be accurate. In almost all cases this is the result of using the wrong length dimension (pp instead of oal). It is best to not rely on a single source for dimensional data. By checking and comparing from several sources you can usually figure out which is which if they are not specified. It is also best not to rely on a single source for anythng, even plans - particularly if these are illustrations in a book. Even supposedly trustworthy sources can contain major errors. For instance, in a book called "Marinship" there is a nice general arrangement of a T-2 tanker. As this book was published by the shipyard that built them, one would assume the plan to be accurate. Not so. The beam was about 15% too wide, but this did not become apparent until I scaled it and compared to another drawing. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Donna Ogilvie Subject: Re:Phalanx gun >> BTW - what was the error in there when they fire on the Aircraft with the Phalanx? << >> No. The Close In Weapon System (SEEWIZ) when armed, will take out ANYTHING it picks up on it radar. Friend or foe. << NOT true the Vulcan Phalanx gun system (AKA Close In Weapons System (CWIS) will only target contacts that meet very specific parameters of course and speed. The system also has an Identification Friend or foe system to prevent blue on blue engagements. I was the Chief Engineer and a qualified Tactical Action Officer on my last ship the USS Hepburn (FF-1055). Yes, we had the system installed on the fantail. All of this information is of course, unclassified. I was also on the USS Texas (CGN- 39)when the system was installed there and went through all of the required training. At the time I was the Assistant Operations Officer. The answer to the question is yes that was a bit of Hollywood, as were MANY other items in the movie in question!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Re: David & Goliath Okay, this may not quite classify as a David vs. Goliath, but I read somewhere a while ago that a RIN (Royal Indian Navy) ship escorting a merchantman was attacked by 2 Japanese raiders in the Bay of Bengal. The RIN ship was not only outnumbered two to one, but faced heavier armament as well. Despite this, the RIN ship apparently went on the offensive and disabled one of the Japanese ships. Maybe someone has more details on this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From : Greg Lee (Listmaster - SMML) Subject : SMML Date Volume Numbering again. Hi all. Well, once again, the volume numbering system has failed. Nobody has missed anything, its just the numbers are a mess. At this stage, I have reset my counter to 359. Do we all concur? Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Re: MANXMAN plans Sorry for this note on list but would the man in New Zeland who is sending me plans give me a note off list I had a motherboard crash and lost your address. Anyone want to send me their "bookmarks" for naval history and model building lost all those also. Sam Pullig Texas U. S. of A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume