Subject: SMML19/03/99VOL489 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:59:39 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Degausing cable question 2: Fine wire 3: Re: Skywave USN Equipement Set #1 5" turrets 4: Re: Skywave USN Equipement Set #1 5" turrets 5: Re: "BUTTERCUP" paint scheme 6: How to reproduce water? 7: More rigging questions 8: Re: Victory at Sea CDs 9: Re: Bluejacket Monitor/CSS Virginia 10: Re: Iwo Jima Class & LPH 11: Re: auxillaries 12: Re: Minesweepers 13: Re: 1/700 Auxiliaries: 14: Rigging material Discovery 15: Re: 1/700 Auxillaries 16: Re: Air mile credit cards 17: Re: Skywave Equipment Set #1 5" Guns 18: Rigging thread 19: Poseidon photoetch 20: Re: Bluejacket Merrimack (Virgina) & Monitor 21: Re: Bluejacket Merrimack (Virginia) & Monitor 22: General comment 23: Re: Enterprise Diorama 24: Questions:Naval Guns and U.S.Drydocks 25: Ark Royal railings -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW BOOK! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note from Shane, Thanks for all the offers of help re the webtv subscribers. I have a volunteer who will pass the issues on to them. Thank you Tim, very much. I hope they will enjoy SMML. Remember that, although I can't reach you at webtv for the moment, you can still post queries/answers to SMML. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Degausing cable question This is bit out of my area of expertise so I don't feel too ignorant asking this. I noticed on pre WW2 battleships what are called degaussing (Is that how you spell it?) cables. What are degaussing cables and what are they used for? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm Hi Rusty, Degaussing cables were used to literally de-gauss the ship to produce either a positive or negative charge to the ship. Gauss being the imperial? measurement for EM induction, which has since been replaced by the tesla unit of measurement. Ships these days usually go to a degaussing range. The one on Sydney Harbour was near HMAS Watson at Watson's Bay. Used to watch them all the time, when I workrd at Garden Is(had a million dollar view from my office, looking over Double Bay & Rose Bay etc, right at the top of GI) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: Fine wire I never heard of boron wire, but its rigidity and fragility seems like a potential drawback. Also, as discussed here before, rigging often has a certain amount of "droop" to it, so a rigid line may not look natural. I discovered a source of suitable wire when I discarded an old manual-dial telephone. The electro magnet that activated the bell was wound with yards and yards of very fine copper wire. I have been using the same spool since the mid 80's and there's plenty more there! Other discarded devices that utilize windings, such as stereo speakers and electric motors are potential sources for fine wire. I prefer wire to stretched sprue for its strength, convenience and consistency. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: Skywave USN Equipement Set #1 5" turrets Alan, If my memory serves me right, the larger of the two single turrets are 5"/54s. I believe there were used on the Midway class carriers when first commisioned. They were lined up along the side of the ships at the hanger deck level and besides being used in shooting down attacking planes, they were also meant the physically stop suicide planes from entering the unprotected hanger deck behind. Now if there was a model of the Midways as commissioned to use them with... Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Skywave USN Equipement Set #1 5" turrets Alan Lindstrom wrote: >> The (out of production) Skywave USN Equipment Set #1 sprue comes with two sizes of single 5"/38 gun turrets. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the two turrents (that is, which ships were they used on)? Would either be appropriate for a Fletcher? << Alan, Part # 35 is a 5"38cal gun for Fletchers. Part #36 is a 5"54cal Mk 39 gun (much longer barrel) for Midway class CVBs and a couple of early postwar JMSDF DDs. As far as I know, there is no suitable kit to use the Mk 39 gun on. When the US started putting 5"54cal guns on DDs, they were an entirely different looking Mk 42. Strictly, on the Fletcher, the housing should be shaped a smidgen differently for Mounts 51 & 55 (the two on the Main Deck). They should have one more athwartship plane, but it's pretty small. You may notice it if you look very close at drawings. Rick Seatle, WA Where they've finally shut off the constant carwash _and_ the wind tunnel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Tom Dean Subject: Re: "BUTTERCUP" paint scheme The camo scheme that you discribe would be correct for most of the Corvettes during the later stages of the war. Instead of operating on the open oceans as they had for most of the war, many of the vessels were now operating closer to land,as originally intended, on the Eastern side of the "Oggin" and their paint schemes adjusted accordingly. The ship would be painted a pale grey overall. The darker area was called a shadow pattern and was meant to represent a false hull from a distance. It would have been a medium grey. Try to get pictures of a few more ships to get the idea of this disruptive panel. Its dimensions and placement on the ship would have been set out in orders from the Admiralty. Its seems to have run from the aftermost bulkhead of the engineroom casing to just aft the bridge face. It would extend from the boot topping to even with gunwhale of the well deck. Hope this helps a bit Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Pietro Caltabiano" Subject: How to reproduce water? It's the first time I build a 1/700 waterline ship model (Italian W.W.I battleship Dante Alighieri) and I don't know how to reproduce water. Can you help me ? Thanks Pietro Caltabiano Hi Pietro, Pop over to Internet Modeller at http://www.internetmodeler.com/ & look up the ship section. There you'll find Rusty White's article on how to model water. I'm sure other SMMLies will chime in as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Louis Costanzo Subject: More rigging questions Hello everyone, I still have a few questions about rigging. First, what is the disadvantage of using fishing line? Second, If I were using clear line, what color would I paint it? Would it be a dark tan to simulate rope, or gray for steel cable? The ship in question is 1:700 HMS Hood. Thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Norman Samish Subject: Re: Victory at Sea CDs >> I have the two CDs (not a set, sold separtely) of the Rodgers and Hamestien Victory at Sea soundtrack. They have new, digitally remixed tracks in Dolby Surround Sound. They're on the RCA Victor label. The first disk is 09026-60963-2. It has no gunfire, but it does have great music. The second disk does have gunfire and all the other sound effects (claxons, etc.). It's number is 09026-60964-2. << Where can I buy these records? I've not been able to find them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Re: Bluejacket Monitor/CSS Virginia Jon asked about the quality and level of detail in these kits. I have built both and when done they are very nice models and pretty accurate as far as I can tell (Civil War era not being my prime interest). The solid wood hulls have to be finish sanded and shaped with only minor corrections (symetry) and I had to relocate the anchor well on the Monitor (a very minor fix - fill existing hole with bondo and redrill) due to being off center. The photo etched parts are very good and the instrustions while minimal are sufficient. Take care in sealing of the basswood prior to painting and the kits should make you happy. Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: Iwo Jima Class & LPH Don, I might have overstated the case for Iwo Jima class LPH's. It appears from DANFS that 7 of 12 LPH hulls were built from the ground up as LPH's. Two others were CVE's, class unknown, 2 were Ticonderoga CV's (short Essex?) and one was an Essex CV. According to Hobbyweb, Jim Shirley had an Iwo Jima in 1/700, out of production I'm sure, Skywave has one around US$27. Ticonderoga and Essex hulls have a couple of kits, Hasegawa?. I think that there is Bouge CVE out there somewhere also. A place to start. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Re: auxillaries Hi All, Hugh L wrote: >> What is the general feeling about auxiliaries in the 1/700 community? << Well, I for one would welcome many more examples of R.N / USN auxilaries in 1:700 scale. The beauty of models of oilers for example, is that they 'attract' other ships round them. There's a super photo in 'The Forgotten Fleet' of an R.N. fleet oiler in the Pacific oiling three ships at once! Similarly, there's that stunning photo of Warspite at anchor with an oiler alongside. These ships make excellent diorama subjects. Well done to Loose Cannon for their T2 oilers - beautiful models of which we want to see many more! Minesweepers/layers, trawlers, drifters, boom defence vessels are all very much required! If enough of us are interested I am sure that WEM would consider funding a production run. Would that be right Caroline? Similarly, a CAM ship like Empire Lawrence or Empire Darwin would also be a very welcome addition to the fleet! Incidentally, I am building six Flowers based on the Buttercup model. As far as I can ascertain and with photographic evidence, the follwing ships would be appropriately to the 'basic' Buttercup design: Snowberry Fennel Bittersweet Eyebright Alisma Can anyone suggest any other UK built corvettes which follow the Buttercup design? Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo.... (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Minesweepers Hi all Hugh L thank you very much for the heads up on the Loose Cannon kits but where do I contact them?? May I have there web-site, address or E-Mail address. Regarding feelings towards 1/700 auxiliaries, if its a minesweeper (or lightship) I dont care what size it is. Thanks. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK (sun, sun and more sun today) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Lester Abbey" Subject: Re: 1/700 Auxiliaries: Hugh Lottie's post solicited opinions about 1/700 Auxiliaries. For what it's worth here are my two cents worth: 1. Love 'em. Keep them coming: 2. I've compiled a list of USN kits that ARE available, WERE available or MAY IN THE FUTURE be available. Most of them have been mentioned in SMML Postings but the following have not: Available: - ARD (Floating Drydock) from Corsair Armada - Cimarron Class Tanker from Bureau of Small Warships - T2 Class Tanker from Bureau of Small Warships - LST, LCM, LCT, LCI from Skywave - AV Cumberland Sound from WSW - APD Ward from WSW - Salomie (Commercial Tanker WWII Era) from WSW Were available - currently OOP - C3 Cargo Ship Navalworks then Jim Shirley Productions - Duxford Motorship - Jim Shirley Productions - LCS(L) from Waveline May be available in the future - AR Vestal - Soon to be released! - Raven Class Minesweeper - Pattern made - Ashley Class LSD - Pattern Made - no caster or distributor - Hog Islander - Pattern Made - no caster or distributor - DMS (Ex 4 Stackers) - Under consideration (a while back) by WSW The gaps are filling. 3. IJN: The IJN has a number of interesting auxiliary kits available in both Plastic and Resin. Transports and merchantmen are poorly represented. 4. Lester's USN Auxiliary wish list - C2 Freighter - President Class Liner/Transport - McCawley (Transport) - Pre War Cargo Ships (for Convoys) - PC's SC's Lester Abbey Wellington New Zealand Warm, not much wind. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: crofoot@bfm.org (Crofoot, Christopher) Subject: Rigging material Discovery While being dragged through the mall by my wife yesterday I made a discovery in the beauty supply store (I swear I was just getting some sanding sticks). Anyway, I saw some interesting material for rigging purposes. It's as thin as a strand of hair. It has a consistent diameter. It tightens when heated with a soldering iron. It comes in black and other dark colors. What is it? It's a material called Kanekalon Fiber made by Revlon under the product name Lifestyles Plus. What it is is a hair extension for African American women. It seems ideal for small scale rigging...much better than clear stretched sprue...my preference. I haven't used it long term of course...but here's an even better point. It's only $2.00 dollars for enough material to last a lifetime... unless you actually get around to building those 726 kits in the closet! This stuff seems like the real deal... near scale thickness in a styrene like material.. try it if you can find it! Chris Crofoot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Robert Weilacher Subject: Re: 1/700 Auxillaries As a response to what the general feeling about 1/700 auxillaries are, I am in favor of seeing any and all USN WWII auxillaries, especially items such as minesweepers that have not been done yet to my knowledge. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Re: Air mile credit cards >>> ...with kits like these available, I never will pay off my VISA. <<< >> Now what you do, see, is get a VISA that gives you airline mileage credit when you use it. That way, buying all those kits will pay your way to the Nationals every year! John Snyder << John sheds some wisdom here. I have a U.S. Bank VISA card issued in partnership with Northwest Airlines. I get one air mile for each dollar I charge to my VISA. I now have three (3) free round-trip tickets to any U.S. Northwest destination, and there is now no expiration on these since the resolution of the pilots' strike. Trouble is, my three-year-old adopted toddler from China keeps me so busy that I can't go anywhere! "Margaret, would you like to go to Newport News in the year 2000 to see the pretty boats at the Nautical Research Guild's conference in conjunction with the Mariners Museum's 5-year model ship competition? Daddy will buy you some ice cream!" Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis (where every pair of pants he owns has the knees worn out from parenting.....) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Skywave Equipment Set #1 5" Guns The larger gun houses, (NOT turrets) were for a 5"/54. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Rigging thread This has already been mentioned but I thought I'd add to it: your local fabric store will sell nylon (clear) sewing thread in several diameters. In my locale (Minneapolis) the smallest I can find is .004". This works fine and is easily attached with white glue (Polyvinyl Acetate=PVA=Elmer's Glue) or CA. Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies sells some Japanese monofilament under the Dai-Riki label which is an incredible .002" in diameter. It's quite strong, too. Both the fishing line monofilament and nylon sewing thread react well to heat shrinking. I use a miniature soldering gun (designed for the electronics industry) and wave it about 1 inch away from both types of line and get good results. Both take paint nicely as well. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Poseidon photoetch Last year I purchased a 1/150 version of the Soviet Nanuchka missile boat by a Czech company, Poseidon. In my ignorance I bought the vacu-form hull version instead of the version with the "hi-tech" photoetch details. Does anyone know how I could come by them? I sent letters to the company, and got no answer. Also, does anyone know of any good plans of this craft? I heard of a set from Australia from a Mr. Elst, but would like to know if they are worth the ~$50 price tag, or if there are others around. Thanks in advance, Jay J. Schantzen MD Thawing out in Minnesota -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Bluejacket Merrimack (Virgina) & Monitor >> I have seen these bluejacket kits listed on the internet and I was hoping someone could tell me something about them. I would like to build the set and was wondering how well detailed they are, how good the materials are, I saw the kits once. They were typical Blue Jacket solid hull models with wood hulls (The Virginia may have a vacuum formed lower hull) with white metal parts. << I am not a liberty to discuss details, but I have good reason to believe that we may see a highly detailed Monitor and Later a Virginia, in resin with interior detail. These will be phenomenal models. >> I'm also looking for a picture that show's the USS Cairo's gunports, were the muzzels exposed thru holes in the covers or were they withdrawn into the hull and the covers closed fully? One picture I have seen seems to show the guns placed through holes, but it's really hard to tell. << The gun ports on the Cairo were covered by a horizontally split double cover with a hole in the center for the muzzle. The lower hatch swung down, the upper hatch, up with the usual hardware and lines. The Cairo generally sailed(?) with the guns run out to make more space inside the casemate. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Ray Lagomasino" Subject: Re: Bluejacket Merrimack (Virginia) & Monitor Jon wrote: >> I have seen these bluejacket kits listed on the internet and I was hoping someone could tell me something about them. I would like to build the set and was wondering how well detailed they are, how good the materials are, etc << WRT Bluejacket's VIRGINIA and MONITOR, I remember seeing the models, about three years ago, on display at a "Merrimack vs. Monitor" Museum in Newport News VA. The models were fairly void of surface detail, e.g. iron plating, and VIRGINIA's smooth lower hull was painted red oxide (which I later found out she had copper plating). Lone Star produces 1/192 scale models of those two ship's; however, I'm not sure of the quality. Of note, I wrote to Cottage Industry Models for a replacement part and to complement their fine kits (HUNLEY, DAVID, and KEOKUK. William Blackmore responded immediately with my part and wrote back that he's in the process of producing a full cutaway version of U.S.S. MONITOR in 1/96th scale (my preferred scale for Civil War ear ironclads). He did say it will cost a few $$$. His follow-on will be a 1/96th scale C.S.S. VIRGINIA, also a cutaway version (casement only I believe). If these new kits are anything like his prior releases, they will be beauties. >> I'm also looking for a picture that show's the USS Cairo's gunports, were the muzzels exposed thru holes in the covers or were they withdrawn into the hull and the covers closed fully? One picture I have seen seems to show the guns placed through holes, but it's really hard to tell. << According to "U.S.S. CAIRO, The Story of a Civil War Gunboat", published by the National Park Service/Dept of Interior, the only know photo of CAIRO was during her fitting out. Her guns are rigged out, with the lower gun port covers closed, upper covers open. A painting of CAIRO (not in the booklet) at the moment of her demise shows both covers open, inside part of covers painted white. I purchased the National Park Service booklet at the U.S.S. CAIRO museum in Vicksburg MS. The 56 page booklet has photos and drawings, to include ship plans (interior views as well) plus useful bits of info, e.g. once salvaged, it was noted that CAIRO's guns had a thin white "quick aiming" stripe painted the length of the top gun barrel. This booklet cost an exorbitant $2.50--one of the best deals around. The inside cover states it's for sale by the: U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents Mail Stop: SSOP Washington DC, 20402-9328 The back of the booklet had "U.S. Government Printing Office: 1994 0-161-111" and the price sticker had "item number 010254" Good luck Jon, hope this helps. Regards, Ray Lagomasino Lawrenceville GA (clear, sunny and 74 degrees) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: BMorri6409@aol.com Subject: General comment Just a general comment on the quality of people who build models . . . I recently posted a message requesting help finding the instructions for Heller's Soleil Royale. I was inundated with many letters from very nice people offering copies of the plans. I really appreciate the many responses and now have a complete set. Kudos to the modeling community! Bill Morrison -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Enterprise Diorama From: Steven Rogers >> I recently attended the Gaston County Regional IPMS [snip] A most impressive Tamiya 1/350 Enterprise was displayed underway (cut down to waterline) with a full deck of aircraft. This was a large diorama !!! << Steve, That was Van Bagwells BIG E, but it was the 1/400 kit (ARII, IIRC), not a 1/350. The ship had the beehive island. The a/c were Tamiya, however. The detail work in the hangar deck was most impressive....too bad the aircraft were all white and the photoetch was poorly done, but I've done stuff like that before....great conversion with sloppy details. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ophelia Subject: Questions:Naval Guns and U.S.Drydocks Hello Everyone; First, let me say thanks for all the responses reguarding rigging. Nextly, I am hoping you can help me out with two more questions: 1) Are there any resources that deal with large calibre naval guns, in particular their construction, design, differences in calibre, ranges, penetration power, difference in shells, etc. 2) Does anyone know if there is any decent resource for U.S. floating drydocks? In particular overseas ones, such as in Guam, which I have a couple of pictures of battleships in. It is for a 1:350 Iowa, and part of a much larger diarama I am working on, so I have to find out if this ship even fits! If not I've made a lot of tugs for something else I guess. If someone makes one it would be nice to know but I have no problem scratchbuilding it either. Thanks again; Mark A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: TANewell@aol.com Subject: Ark Royal railings I am finishing up my Airfix 1/600 Ark Royal to complete my collection of the ships involved in the Bismarck chase. The flight deck of this carrier does not feature the lowered catwalk along the outside edge like I've seen on American carriers....and examination of photos shows railing installed along the top of the edge of the flight deck, I'm sure to keep the crewmen from being pitched overboard. My problem is that all of the photos that I've seen that are clear enough to see the railings were taken with the ship in port, and I'm wondering if the railings were kept in place during air operations or if they were taken down (I want to show the Ark launching its Swordfish). I know that at least some of the railings were taken down for flying...one photo clearly shows railings installed ACROSS both ends of the flight deck, aft of the catapults and forward of the stern droop down, and also completely around the elevators....but I'm wondering about the side railings. Thanks in advance, Tim Newell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW BOOK! A brand new title has arrived from AIRLIFE. "Camera at Sea, the history of the Royal Navy Pphotographic branch 1919-1998", Neil Mercer, h/b, 144pp, many colour and black and white photographs. A colour portfolio of VERY high quality (and many quite beautiful!) photos 1985-1998 occupies about 1/2 this book 24.95 pounds. Best Regards, Caroline Carter http:/dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models For a great build of the WEM 1/700 HMS Sussex 1942, http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/sussex/sussex.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume