Subject: SMML24/03/99VOL494 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:28:58 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Building A Diorama 2: Hangar Deck Colors 3: Monograph Morskie #5 4: Re: Hazelwood 5: Revell Lionfish, Nautilus models, other help 6: Warship International 4/98 7: Re: Lindberg Essex needed 8: Re: Minesweepers 9: Re: Liberty Ships 10: Re: FRAM USS NICHOLAS 11: Re: USS Barb 12: Expert help needed 13: USN Fast BB's 14: Re: Victory at Sea Article 15: Re: Warship Profile Sources 16: Re: USS Barb 17: Re: Sea Shadow & SLICE 18: Re: Moral equivalency 19: Re: Sea Shadow 20: Re: Degausing 21: Re: Stealth Ship Sighted??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Books & kits FS 2: Webpage update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Building A Diorama I'm thinking about being a kid again and building a dock with navel buildings and all that stuff. The Naval Base Hobbies has a 1/700 pier set. What size of ship should I (I know that this is a dum question) use 1/700. And do you guys know of any other sets I can use with it. Building,, personal, trucks ect............ Andy Its 37f topside but 90 feet underground in my comtrol room its a nice 74f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Howard Rifkin Subject: Hangar Deck Colors I'm starting to build a series US, WW II and pre WW II carriers. I know all the exterior paint schemes I want to use, I can't find any data on what colors to use for the hanger decks. So what colors where the insides of the hanger decks painted? Was the deck itself painted Deck Blue and the walls the exterior color, or more likely was there some standard interior color that they were painted? Thanks, Howard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Allan Salas Subject: Monograph Morskie #5 I'm trying to purchase a copy of Monograph Morskie #5, IJN Battleships Nagato and Mutsu. This book is out of print and I need it for an upcoming project. Any leads? Thanks Al Salas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: Hazelwood Rick, Friedman's Destroyers has text based descriptions of the DASH mods to Hazelwood, see pages 280, 281 and 282. Unfortunately only photo of Hazelwood is after a Kamikaze attack off of Okinawa. There are photos of Lester DE-1022, Bronstein DE-1037 and Moale DD-693 with DASH installed. Hope it helps. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ted Schlabotnik" Subject: Revell Lionfish, Nautilus models, other help Oh great keepers of all modeling knowledge....... I have the Revell lionfish kit, but remember seeing Nautilus Models had some resin conning towers and guns and such. Does anyone know the URL for them? Also, does anyone have any knowledge of an Otaki 1/350 QE2 kit? Anything would help. One more, I want to backdate the Tamiya 1/350 POW to her appearance when she fought Bismark. I have the Garzke/Dulin volume on allied battleships, but it doesn't seem to talk about weapons fit or color scheme. Any pointers here would also be appreciated. Mark Seitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Warship International 4/98 The latest issue of WI (4/98) includes lengthy feature articles on the design history of USS Independence (CVL-22) and sister ships, and the first in a series on the raising of the wreck of USS Maine. Both articles are profusely illustrated with some excellent quality photographs. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Lindberg Essex needed >> I have posted this on the message board, but if anyone knows of a Lindberg Essex kit for sale, please let me know. I need it for a project. (Yes, I know I'm slumming purchasing it - I have my reasons!) << Patriots Point has them by the ton if all else fails, but the kit was reissued in a blue box last year and shouldnt be too hard to find. I know of several local Atlanta shops that have them in stock (well, last week anyway) >> What I'm really wanting to do is accurize the Revell modernized Essex kit and display it side by side with an accurrized Lindberg kit (as far as possible) to show the modifications in the same scale. I remember as a kid I did an el cheapo SBC 27 conversion on the Lindberg kit by swapping islands out with the Revell kit, and I thought then that the scales were identical (was I right?). I wasn't aware then of the hull blistering and other modifications. << Yes, they are both nearly 1/540 scale. The Lingberg hull is just longer than the Revell. By swapping the Islands you'd get close to a SCB-27A....USS ESSEX in 1954, the late hulls as-built (Oriskany....really late!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Minesweepers Now here this. I am sorry but my request for details of World War 2 Admirable Class minesweepers met with a limited response. Some fantastic, some odd. Start again, look up what articles you have on them and try a little harder. If we can't do better than this I will have to beat myself up in the corner of my study. Any information you have, however small, is appreciated. Don't be afraid, I will not ridicule you, please help!!!!!!!! With the most submissive acceptance. John S. Platt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Liberty Ships >> Anyone back east who wants to check out a Liberty Ship before starting a model should visit the JOHN W. BROWN in Baltimore. << Or the JEREMIAH O'BRIEN in San Francisco (sure wish they'd put her in an accurate WW2 paint scheme, though--something other than the modern Haze Gray 5-H she's wearing). Don't know what you Gulf Coast folks are going to do.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys (Having a hard time typing one-handed while having to pet an insistent golden retriever) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: FRAM USS NICHOLAS Rick: Given where you're located, I'd suggest check local libraries--including Suzalo Library at UW--for runs of USNI Proceedings. Then look for articles on DASH. You'll probably find some good photos. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: USS Barb Barb was fitted with one Mk.51 rocket launcher, consisting of 12 tubes. This is the same pipe rack-type launcher used on landing barges. The base plates were welded to the deck (my references don't specify exactly where), and the launcher itself was stored in the doghouse on deck. The rocket crew was able to set up the launchers in under one minute. All twelve 5" spin-stabilized high-capacity rockets could be launched in 4.5 seconds. Elevation could be adjusted on the launcher, but azimuth had to be adjusted by aiming the boat itself. The rockets weighed 20 pounds each. Barb first used her new weapon on 27 June 1944 against Shari on the island of Hokkaido. By war's end, Requin, Chivo, and Chopper had been fitted with six launchers, enabling each of them to fire a 72-rocket salvo. References: THUNDER BELOW by Adm. Eugene Fluckey, U.S. SUBMARINES THROUGH 1945 by Norman Freidman. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Expert help needed Ok you guys (and girls possibly) I am researching a ship and some information I have received is in German. They use a word which translates to "tail shaft" in my English-German dictionary, does anyone have any ideas what a "tail shaft" means??? It is used in the context of converting a sailing ship to a motor vessel. I think it might mean the propeller shaft but you never know. Any help from you lot is welcome. Thanks. John S. Platt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Robert Weilacher Subject: USN Fast BB's I am planning to do a 1/700 USN Fast BB soon. I have Aoshima and Hasegawa kits of the NC and SD Class ships. Which of these kits are good representations of which which members of the respective classes? What improvements need to be made (aside from the usual Skywave replacement parts) especially with regard to the 20mm outfit/configuration layout ? Thanks, Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Re: Victory at Sea Article Hi All, While trying to keep this on an even keel (no pun intended), I must disagree with Mr Cornelissen in assuming moral equivalency as regards modern war, between the Axis powers and the Allies. While it is naive to believe in a world of black and white, I have come to believe that the policies of the axis powers were evil. Not bad, not calculated, but plain evil. We were no angels, but there was a very big difference between how and why we (the Allies) waged war. On the allied side, we've been criticized primarily for the bombing campaigns of Germany (RAF) and Japan (USAAF), the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan, and the reprehensible concentration and confinement of Americans of Japanese ancestry (USA). I don't believe the RAF night campaign to dehouse people was an effective war-fighting strategy, and Harris's refusal to target oil in the combined campaign is not understandable. The USAAF in Japan at first tried to use daylight high-altitude precision bombing, but due to various reasons (the hard discovery of the jet winds being one), that was abandoned in favor of night area bombing. As we all know, that effort went far beyond just dehousing workers and contributed to a significant reduction in Japanese war making capability. The dropping of the atomic bombs ended the war when it did. Of that there can be no doubt. Weather or not it would have ended shortly after, required an invasion or the slow starvation of the island nation of Japan we'll never know. Read Fussel's book Thank God for the Atomic Bomb for a veteran's appreciation for the A-bomb. As far as the internment of Japanese-Americans, that to me is the largest blot on America's war. We (non Japanese-Americans) treated them with gross disregard for their rights as Americans. Not as an excuse, but as a comparison, let me remind you that our concentration camps had no gas showers or crematoriums. Nor did we subject them to live bacteriological and chemical experiments. Finally, I'm glad that Mr. Cornelissen is alive and well near what may have been a nuclear battlefield. Because his country, and others in NATO were prepared to defend themselves with atomic weapons, they never had to. Off Soap Box mode, Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Warship Profile Sources When in the Chicago area, I've always paid a visit to "Articles of War". They are among the best used/new military book dealers in the US, and always have a large number of the aircraft and armor profiles, and quite a few of the warship ones as well. Not sure if they have a web site yet, but they do offer a mail order catalog and accept 'want' lists. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Barb Oh, good, a sub question! I live for these! >> In May 1945, USS BARB SS 220 underwent a yard overhaul which included the installation of 5-inch rocket launchers. On the following patrol, her 12th, she bombarded Japanese shore targets with rockets in July 1945. This was the first operation of rockets in submarine warfare. Can anyone add more information on this event. Espacially, I would like to know how many rocket launchers were installed (according to Alden, The Fleet Submarine in the US Navy, it could have been only one), and where they were locataed. I also would like to know what kind of rocket launcher was used. << According to Gene Fluckey, Barb's captain, the rocket launcher was a single Mark 51 launcher. The launcher was fixed in azimuth and had adjustable pipe pins for 30, 35, 40 and 45 degrees of angle. Due to fixed azimuth, Barb had to be aimed at the target. He used 5 inch spin stabilized rockets. From the description, the launcher was a portable pipe rack type, and was stored in the conning tower. It was rigged on deck in less than a minute prior to firing. Rockets were fired electrically in a salvo from the pipe rack. This was strictly a Fluckey initiative, not an official Navy plan for ballistic rocket attacks. Fluckey later made the only successful submarine attack on a Japanese locomotive, by sending a landing party ashore with Barb's scuttling charge (what do you need a scuttling charge in a submarine for, anyhow?) and a microswitch. After placing the charge under the track with a microswitch and wedges carefully placed so that the weight of the train would close the circuit, the party headed back to Barb. When they were on their way back, a train came, and the ensuing explosion blew the locomotive into the air. Barb's battleflag commerorates both the rocket attacks and the locomotive, and is on display from time to time in the Submarine Force Museum in Groton, CT. Fluckey received the Medal of Honor for his exploits with Barb, which included numerous enemy ship sinkings. His proudest achievement was that no one on Barb was ever hurt. The book, "Thunder Below", written by Fluckey about Barb's exploits, has been optioned for a possible film project by Dreamworks. Tom Dougherty Visit the submarine model group the SubCommittee at: http://www.wolfsong.com/SubCommittee/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Ralph E. Batykefer, Jr." Subject: Re: Sea Shadow & SLICE The Stealth Sea Shadow is actually considered a S.W.A.T.H. (Small Waterplane Area Twin Hull). Its buoyancy is provided primarily by the pontoons located under the water surface. This makes the ship very stable in high sea states. In addition, the forward submerged fins are linked to a ride control system. In fact, I viewed video of the inside of a SWATH ship (in sea state 4 waves just outside San Francisco harbor) that had a glass of water sitting on a table with only small ripples. Meanwhile, viewing out the porthole was a Coast Guard cutter that was tossing and turning enough to make you sick watching it. Great way of selling the design concept... BTW, Kurt what is the SLICE technology demonstrator? Ralph Batykefer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Moral equivalency >> I know I might be starting a 'flame' here, but I think you are missing the point. The early 20th century (Kennedy puts it in the 1940's but the phenomenon is a bit older an dates at least to the 1st world war) saw all great powers getting involved in mass murder of the other powers' populations for political purposes. This was always justified in terms of 'revenge' for what the other side had done, and it went totally against the normal ways in which the great powers had acted in the previous century. << I think that to the contrary the change is a natural offshoot of the industrial revolution. In earlier centuries, the military was an elite force that put out in the field and engaged in what amounted to little better than hand to hand combat. With WWI, or perhaps a bit earlier, wars became industrial efforts with the population of the country forming the economic and industrial base that kept the armed forces running. While I am far from naive about the effect of revenge and group animus, populations became targets because that's where the factories were. Remember the ball bearing plants in Schweinfort or the steel mills of the Ruhr valley? As weapons became more destructive in the range from bows and arrows and spears to artillery and aircraft and nuclear weapons, the scope of damage done has increased. Likewise as war has become increasingly more technical and increasingly he effort of the entire populace, the populace and home front industrial plant become legitimate targets. >> The 'revenge for Pearl Harbor' propaganda was definetely racist and aimed at the whole of the Japanese population, as if these people were responsible for the acts of the military dicatorship which had started the war. << Who was responsible Tojo by his lonesome? Remember that we belive that Governments are established with the consent of the governed and that their power is obtained from the governed. Americans have traditionally had a particular dislike of the "Sneak in the night". Recall our anger with Germany in WWI over the unannounced attacks against neutral shipping, remember the Lusitania? Was that racist too? >> course a big moral difference between the Axis powers and the allies (bar the USSR perhaps), but I think that does not mean that these acts were justified. In the case of the bombing campaigns agains Germany and Japan (or the WW1 Western front massacres) this is all the more poignant as these campaigns were quite useless for winning the war. << What did win the war?? Don't you think that the tanks and aircraft that the Germans couldn't replace had a factor? Likewise the Japanese inability to replace lost ships and aircraft? >> This 'moral degradation' of the first half of the century, and the game of MAD (holding the enemy's population at ransom so to speak) that followed is one of the fundametal unresolved moral issues of this time and age, and it is good to see that some military historians are also getting interested in the subject. << Actually I take he rather controversial view that MAD and the threat of nuclear annihilation had a great limiting effect on warfare in he latter half of the century. I suspect that but for the threat, at least a dozen of more incidents in Europe, not to mention Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East, would have resulted in Major "World Wars" Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Sea Shadow >> The US Navy Stealth Ship "Sea Phantom" has been cruising the San Fransisco Bay Area this week as part of Operation Urban Warrior. The Sea Phantom docked this weekend behind the floating museum, USS Hornet, allowing close up inspection of its exterior. << What is the stated function of the Sea Shadow and is it armed?? If so How?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Degausing >> Experts in this particular field assured us that with the vast amount of lead shielding around the MRI the amount of Gauss emanating from within was barely measurable. Guess we need to add deGaussing cables around many hospitals. There are ways of shielding against magnetic fields- such as de-gaussing and such; but I don't believe LEAD is one of them. Magnetic fields are an effect, not particles, and as such completely ignore lead. << Lead is not effective against magnetic fields. Special alloys like Mu Metal and Konetic alloys are required. These are actually used in rather thin sections, but must be complete and gapless, with special care used in allowing openings for wiring and structural pass throughs. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Stealth Ship Sighted??? I was wondering that with all of the ship traffic in the Bay, and undoubtedly numerous ship-mounted radar, was there any radio chatter about the STEALTH SHIP being visible to radar? I had read in an aircraft magazine that the Sea Shadow was entirely visible in the radar realm, even on the standard commercial sets that sailboats and motorboats carry. Are these claims true? If so, then what have our taxes paid for? Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: LRobin9900@aol.com Subject: Books & kits FS Hi These are the last of my duplicate books and models for sale. Also, im looking for original slides or Photos of US. NAVY helicopters. Thanks Skip Robinson NAVAL BOOKS 1. US.BATTLESHIPS in action Pt..2 Squadron/signal warships No4 50pg 1984 $7.00 3 ALLIANCE Submarine Anatomy of the ship Naval Institute Press 120pg 1986 Excellent highly detailed drawings and information $25.00 4. IOWA CLASS BATTLESHIPS Their design ,Weapons & Equipment Robert Sumrall 1988 195pg Lots of excellent detailed pictures and Drawings SUPERB BOOK. $35.00 8. BATTLESHIPS AT WAR! Sea Classics Special Fall 1984 130pg Excellent condition $5.00 10. BATTLESHIPS United States Battleships in world War II Naval Institute Press 1984 3rd updated printing 300pg Excellent Drawings and photos of the later US Battleships $35.00 11. SUPER CARRIERS Osprey color series 1986 many color photos 125pg Many Color photos $7.00 12. SEVENTH FLEET SUPER CARRIERS Osprey color Series 30pg 1987 Many Color photos $7.00 MODEL KITS 1. AHM 1960s 1/400 WWII T-2 Tanker USS Mission Capistrano $15.00 2. REVELL 1/720 ARK ROYAL Aircraft carrier With British Destroyer Escort ASHANTI 1973 Excellent box art $16.00 4. AOSHIMI No98 1/700 Japanese Ocean liner ( looks like an American Ocean liner) $15.00 5. AIRFIX R.M.S. Mauretania 1/600 1980 Made in Japan $15.00 NAVAL AVIATION SH-2G Kaman Super Seasprite color info brochure $7.00 USN F-4 Phantoms in combat (Vietnam) squadron/signal US Navy Phantoms Drendel1 1988 64pg $7.00 USMC F-4 Phantoms in combat ( Vietnam) squadron/ signals 64pg 1990 $7.00 DETAIL & SCALE US.Navy F-4 Phantom Colors and markings Pacific coast squad. 65pg $7.00 WINGS ACROSS THE SEA Austrailian Naval Aviation Pictures , history ,Etc. 1988 162pg $9.00 US NAVY WEST COAST WARRIORS (PT MUGU) all color 96pg $8.00 AEROFAX MINIGRAPH 9 NA A3J/A-5 Vigilante 1989 58pg $8.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Webpage update Hi SMMLlies, For anyone who is interested I have added a page on HMS Chester 1916 with a feature on the WEM kit. Please click below: http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/chester/chester.htm Cheers! Caroline C WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume