Subject: SMML14/08/99VOL638 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:44:33 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Battle E's 2: Painting an LA class sub 3: FLOATING DRYDOCKS 4: E's and such 5: U.S.S. Californias 6: Re: Book on Big Mo 7: Solar Eclipse - Paint Colors 8: BWN USS West Virginia 9: Re: Mystery Ship 10: Midway 11: What is vegemite????? 12: Re: "E" awards 13: USS John C. Stennis (CVN74) Visits Victoria, BC 14: Fleet visitors in Stavanger 15: 5" 38 cal. open mounts - 1/700 scale 16: Dutch IPMS 17: model warship 18: Re: Subject: Book info -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model Expo Sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Lars Orloff" Subject: Re: Battle E's The white E is the Navy's "Battle Efficiency Award". A white E indicates that the ship has been determined through inspections, training exercises, and a lot of butt-kissing to be the most able ship in its squadron. The award is made up of four sub categories. In 1995, for the surface navy, these were: Engineering/Survivability, Maritime Warfare, Command and Control, and Logistics Management. If a ship was deemed to excel in any of the four sub categories, they were authorized to paint a colored E on the superstructure, usually on the bridge wing. The different colors in 1995 were: Red E - Eng/Surv, Black E - Maritime Warfare, Green E - Command and Control, Blue E - Logistics Management. All E's - white or colored - were authorized to be painted on for only one year. If a ship won the white or other colored E in the next year, it would paint a hash mark below the previous year's decoration. If an E was not achieved in the following year, it (and any of its hash marks) had to be removed. Thus, an E with any number of has marks indicates that a ship achieved that award at least two years in a row. The ship's crew and officers, upon winning the white E, are authorized to wear the "Battle E ribbon" indicating that they served on a ship that won the "Battle E". They wear this ribbon forever (i.e. they never have to take it off like the ship does if it is not won in consecutive years). As I mentioned, this award is given to only one ship in a squadron (or similar entity). Thus, it can be very political. Squadron commanders aren't above picking favorites, nor are ship captains above killing themselves (actually, killing their crews) to become the "teacher's pet". I could relate some horror stories, but I'll leave them to your imagination. Lars R. H. Orloff Lieutenant, USN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: valiant@home.com Subject: Painting an LA class sub Hello all, Could someone please tell me which paints to paint my sub with? I feel Dragon's instructions are wrong; (its the LA class vs. Alfa bow kit version). Isn't the bow of the ship some kind of light gray? All Dragon says is some werid mix of colour for the top and bottom colour. Also, I suck badly at mixing paint and would rather use some kind of replacement. I only have particular lines of paint in my region. These include Model Master, Gunze water based, Humbrol, Tamiya, both kinds of Aeromaster. I don't want to order paints from the states or something as its a pain getting such materials into Canada (was the last time i tried to anyway). Thanks in advance O wise ones.... Aaron 'HARLOCK' Propper modeler on the loose -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "fwliedel" Subject: FLOATING DRYDOCKS Does anybody know where I could get plans for W.W. 1 era floating drydocks. Either German or British would do. I have only a few pictures of British ones, but these are not enough to scratchbuild one properly. Would appreciate any help . Regards, Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Sven E Dorsey" Subject: E's and such I got out the old Blujackets manual and checked on the Division colors Red was enginering, Green is Aviation, and White Is the color of the rest of the Divisions ie Deck, Quartermaster, Supply etc. "E" was only white and Hashmarks were for Different Departments that earned them. These were earned during the ORI (Operation Readdiness Inspections, and could only be worn for that year that it was earned. Sven Dorsey [Plankowner USS Guam LPH-9] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:56:00 EDT Subject: U.S.S. Californias Hi folks, I am in the process of planing my next project, putting two 1/350 Californias side by side on the same base. Both kits will be the Commanders kits, a 1930's backdate and a 1944 refit. The questions I have are; where can I find a set of plans for the 1930's fit and where can I get a drawing of the Ms 32 scheme the ship wore in '44? Another thing I was wondering, are the inside of the various gun and director tubs painted to match the exterior color of the tub or are they painted another color? One other thing is a question about rigging, of the reference material I have the pictures are either too close showing incomplete rigging or too far to be able to discern anything. Has anyone seen or heard of a guide to a warships rigging, if not exact, then a general arrangement of what would be common on a variety of ships. Lastly, and I am probally opening a can of worms, should they be full hull or waterline? Thanks, Joe Kreutz Farmingdale, N.Y. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Greg Lee Subject: Re: Book on Big Mo Hi Hiok, >> I'm wondering if anyone who have these books tell me which is better as a reference for building Tamiya's Big Mo. 1, Iowa Class Battleship: Their Design,Weapons & Equipment by Robert Sumrall 2, Battleship Missouri: An illustrated History by Paul Stilwell I already hv the Floating Drydock plan book. << Definately Stilwells History, although Sumrall's book is very good, the information covers all the Iowa's and most of their individual configurations over the last 50 yrs. The Tamiya Mo kit is based on Mo around mid/late 40's, and Stilwells book has a much more extensive coverage, and many great photographs of the ship at that time. Have Fun! Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Solar Eclipse - Paint Colors Aylin Kececi wrote: >> Subject: Re: solar eclipse - Not directly ship modeling related but I couldn't resist.... << I think the eclipse is ship modeling related. Seems to me that if we all painted and judged our models during a solar eclipse, all appearances would be correct, everything would turn out OK, and no one could argue (too strong a word, maybe) about right or wrong colors. I couldn't resist, either. Dave Riley Portsmouth, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Kevin Wenker Subject: BWN USS West Virginia On the other hand, I ordered direct a Blue Water Navy West Virginia about a year or so ago. When it arrived, the ships boats and one stack had been broken (apparently) in shipping. The second level deck was badly warped. I called and explained the situation - I presume it was the owner to whom I spoke - I was told to hold the deck under hot water. I explained I had done that (been building resin for some time) and it had not helped. So he told me to glue it down with lots of weight on it. As to the ships boats and stack, he said he was busy making other kits and did not have time to get to it for a while. I never heard back. Needless to say, it will be a cold day in hell before I order anything else from Blue Water Navy. And the thing is, I have purchased 4 other ships from them - it's like I am some freeloader trying to get some extra ships boats. For the price of the Wee Vee, I should have received some consideration. As it is, the West Virginia sits in my closet. To many bad feelings to even try building her. Pity. Kevin Wenker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Re: Mystery Ship I downloaded your picture and ran it through the photo-editor on my computer. It definitely looks like a Grimsby or early Black Swan class sloop, with mountings in A, B and X positions, a raked funnel with the top parallel to the deck, and a single bandstand abaft the funnel. There is also a pennant number under A mounting, and by squinting heavily, standing on my head, and a few other tricks, I reckon it is either U73 or U74. The former is HMAS Warrego, the latter HMAS Swan, both Australian Grimsby class sloops. There is a photo on page 57 of Arnold Hague's book Sloops 1926-1946 (World Ship Society, 1993), which shows Warrego in exactly the same disruptive scheme as your mystery photo, so I would suspect that is your ship. Warrego also had minesweeping equipment on her quarterdeck, and your photo seems to show something like that in the correct place. The Hague photo is officially captioned as being in Papua New Guinea around 1943, but the author queries this as the armament fit is as before a 1942 refit (when one twin and one single 4" and one quad mg were exchanged for two twin 4" and a 40 mm). It is hard to tell with certainty the armament in your photo, but I think it could have been taken post refit in Australia. Cliff Franklin New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Midway >> McClusky actually spotted the INS Arashi which was busy depth charging the Nautilas. She was on her way back towards the fleet was he found her. INJS Arashi also picked up a US TBD pilot Wesley Osmus. He was interrogated and then executed. The last TBD pilot to die in enemy hands. << Hi All; Does anyone know of any books covering this? Did anyone get tried post war for this? What results from the trial? Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Chris Christenson" Subject: What is vegemite????? Shane or anyone "down under": OK, so I'm out in the sticks here in Nebraska. Educate me! What is vegemite? Cris Christenson Ord Nebraska You too can be the brightest candle on the cake if you extinguish all the others. Hi Chris, Basically it's a sandwich spread made out of yeast extract. & that is covering a multitude of sins ;-)). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Scott Weeks" Subject: Re: "E" awards So far no one has mentioned the deck seamanship "D" award. A red letter D for the side, which we (USS Aspro, SSN-648) won in 1993 along with the Battle "E." Imagine our surprise when we all showed up to the boat after we won these two awards and saw that she was now named "Ed"! Regards, Scott The best marine is a submarine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Keith Reed" Subject: USS John C. Stennis (CVN74) Visits Victoria, BC Folks, the USS John C. Stennis (CVN74) visited Victoria, British Columbia last week. I have arranged for my film developer to post my photos taken on 29/7/99 of the ship and its flight deck. If you want you may download the pictures for your own use. There is no description. I think that most of the shots are self-explanatory. There are a few family/friends shots but most (36 out of 40) are of the ship and her aircraft. The Web site is http://www.ldphotostation.com The ID for the pictures is UXJX5IMP If this approach is of interest I will post other shots from time to time for downloading. Cheers, Keith Reed Victoria, British Columbia Canada Mailto:rkreed@home.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Fleet visitors in Stavanger There's a naval exercise in these waters, so we've been greeted with thirteen visitors this weekend. I managed to visit six of the ships; HMCS Iroquis, USS Stephen W. Groves, HMS Coventry, the Spanish frigates Andalucia and the Numancia and finally the German Navy frigate Rheinland-Pfalz. Also moored to the quay in Stavanger was a Russian sailing ship, the "Mir", a Dutch frigate, a Portugese Frigae, and a German supply vessel, along with two Norwegian "Ula" class submarine and a Danish submarine similar to the Norwegian "Kobben" class. The only ship I was on board that had a reasonable consistent colour of the deck was the "Iroquis" - the other ones were faded and touched up so the colour could only be described as a bluish dark grey - in some cases weathered to a medium grey. The US ship also had the roughest no-slip finish of them all. The horizontal surfaces seemed to be in pretty good shape in most ships, with only a slight amount of rust in a few places - go easy on the rust-wash! The "Andalucia" was more weathered, but as the guides said, it was due for replacement soon. The "Iroquis" had a dark green flight deck with yellow markings on it - not for looking like the green, green grass of home, but for making approaches easier. There's not a lot of room between a Sea King and the hangar. The Iroquis also stood out being painted in a greenish grey colour - close to FS 24410, with a little bit of white added for scale effect on a model. The Rheinland-Pfalz was closest to FS35237 - definitely a bluish tone. Also noticeable on the German, US and British ships was the "nose art" on the helicopters. The most interesting was the "Mephisto" - a diabolical figure on the German Sea Lynx painted in black and white on the dark grey radome. The Sea Hawk of the Stephen W. Groves had light blue metallic "hot rod flames" on the nose and the RN Lynx...well, what else would you expect than a bulldog? An interesting visit, and it was nice to see that the ships presented themselves with informative leaflets. The Iroquis even had a map showing where everyone in the crew came from - I think there was only one from British Columbia... Managed to take some photos of weapons, radars and masts, so if there are any questions, just drop me a line. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: 5" 38 cal. open mounts - 1/700 scale Does anyone have any recommendations as far as aftermarket 5" open mounts as carried by the Yorktown and Essex class carriers? I have scratchbuilt some and didn't particularly care for the effort required. It seems like all the ones I have seen in kits are incorrect in scale or lack any decent amount of detail. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "foeth" Subject: Dutch IPMS The Dutch IPMS is a relatively small group, mainly aircraft. Armour is, as said, mostly another group, who apparently did not agree with the IPMS, mostly due to the magazine, which is mostly aircraft, no armour. The armour guys are more or less absent on the Nationals, although there were a few good models present, taking the prizes, even though the best models are not always awarded. The Ship Modeling group has just been started. I said it is all bad, but that is not true, but that day, after 5 months of preparing an experiment, some vital equipment broke down, and I was, shall we say, not in the best mood (A singularity in the mood continuum). However, the number of ship modelers remains very small, and of these modelers, I saw little use of etchings. I spoke to some of the builders of the quality models, and no suprise, they all started as armour modelers, as this group just has better skills in the painting departement. Applying washes and drybrushing is more or less a standard in the armour modeling, but you do not see it often on ships, while the techniques can give the model great depth and color. Mind you, this is not weathering, this is just adding shadows, accents, highlighting etc. A flat etched door on a ship will hardly be noticeable is just airbrushed with the rest of the model, but with a film of black oils and some light grey weathering, it will pop up. The setup of the Nationals and the Airforce exhibit is such that everyone can grab a model and take it. This remains a risk at any show, but especially ships with the rigging and railing are extremely sensitive, even to the slightest touch, a everybody no doubt has found out. Combined with the "lets all be judges system", a lot of modelers don't even consider visiting the nationals, and I can hardly blame them. As there are no shops in Holland as far as I know who sell etchings, only modelers visiting german or british shows even know there are etchings for ships. With the internet it is a bit closer than it used to be, but I found out about these product by buying some Fine Scale Modelers, and just started writing all the manufacturers, and asking for other addresses etc. The normal modeling shops are mostly unaware of these extra sets as well, unless a modeler has brought in a ships with etchings to show them. My guess would be that ship modeling in the Netherlands is some kind of an undiscovered country, which may change now there is a SIG. I hope it will attract more modelers, and I am always looking for them them, and sometimes you even find them. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: model warship I have been building WWII 1/700 ships fore ca. 30 years. I now have more than 1250 ships and 5000 airplanes. I have all British, Japan, French, and Italien battleships. I do make my owen resine models Yours Erik Erhardtsen P.S. I am new to Internet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: Re: Subject: Book info >> You mean you won't be offering free translation services? ;-)) Mistress Lorna << If you have any question about translation I'll help. Free... As far as I know AJPress previously released one or two ships monograph in English, but why they stopped it (or not?) - I don't know why. If someone wants to ask publisher about it here's address: aj-press@home.pl or ajpress@kki.net.pl. At your services :) Damian Pliszka (Poland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Model Expo Sale Killer web site sale at Model Expo, Inc. 10% off orders $1-$100 20% off orders $101-$499 25% off orders $500 and up. Covers all products, including ship kits, paints, tools. Just go to http://www.modelexpoinc.com Best Regards Rob Finley Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume