Subject SMML02/10/99VOL686 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:34:36 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Camo and Samar 2: Re: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato 3: Bilge Pumps 4: Re: Bilge pumps, smml convention 5: The Alp$ printer 6: USS San Fransisco props + current projects 7: Decals and Liberty Ships 8: Bilge Pumps 9: Re: bilge pumps 10: Water pump for bilge in 1/400 11: More on Dazzle Camo 12: Hood 13: Decals 14: Re: Alps and Decals 15: USS California 16: Re: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato 17: Re: Bilge pump and Decals 18: Re: Bilge Pumps for Yamato 19: Re: IJN DD Harusame/IJN DD Books/Fujimi Lexington 20: FSM Article: ALPS printer 21: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato 22: Re: home made decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Trivia 2: Tom's Modelworks Update 3: Attention Pacific Northwest SMMLies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Camo and Samar Not only did Kurita move the defenders up a class or two, DD->CA and DE->DD, he also mistook his quarry, the CVE's for CVA's. He broke off the attack in part because he thought that the CVE's were retreating at 30 knots, Sprague's CVE's had a top speed of 17 1/2 knots. Unless Mr. Scott was his Chief Engineer, some value can given to the camo for causing confusion. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN where some fool is predicting snow for tonight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Re: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone trying this. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. << Paul- We regularly build pumps for our R/C combat ships. There are plans for a simple on on my club's website- http://www.netwalk.com/~popev/bg . Go to the Articles and Tips section, Building a Pump from scratch. I have build this pump numerous times now, and it works great. There are also a few manufacturers who specialize in R/C warship combat who also sell pumps. Finally, people have used windshield washer pumps (high current drain though), as well as a small pump from Edmund Scientific (http://www.edmundscientific.com/Products/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1491). As far as pump rates go, the Edmund Scientific has the smallest output rate- most likely what you're looking for. Ours are optimized to evacuate water due to battle damage. It's probably much more output than you'd want. (45-105 GPH, depending on voltage) Hope that helps some- Sean D. Hert Webmeister, MBG Site: http://www.netwalk.com/~popev/bg/ Ringmaster, Big Gun R/C Warship Combat Ring "History doesn't always repeat itself... sometimes it just screams 'Why don't you listen when I'm talking to you?' and lets fly with a club." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Bilge Pumps For bilge pumps, try the guys who do scale RC Combat in 1/144th scale. They have pumps that automatically kick in when water reaches a certain depth inside the hull. I do not have a URL handy, but Swampworks, out of Springfield, MO, will certainly handle these. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: Bilge pumps, smml convention Try windshield washer pumps. They come in various shapes and sizes and usually are inexpensive. Some also come with a filter which is manditory if you run in a natural (lake or pond) enviroment. I am off to the UK on vacation tomorrow to pound on some steel and wood decks of some RN ships and as many museums as my better half will allow. Upon return the USS Salem Volunteers will be deep into creating our haunted ship extravaganza for the week preceeding Halloween after which the call goes out to all who wish to participate in SMMLcon I. I have collected all the comments on and off post and all ideas and suggestions will be considered. So anyone out there who may have yet to put forward comments, please do so, on list or direct to me. Watch out HMS Belfast, here comes the USS Salem!! John Frohock USNSM Them messboys ate the strawberries and I can proove it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler Subject: The Alp$ printer Hello All, I am still about 6 months behind on decal orders. I am really sorry, but I am working on then every night that I am in the country and have just completed several more designs. Just to let everyone know, I am a one person operation in the back room with my Mac. Now for the stuff on the Alps. It does nice work as long as you get used to it's quirks. As I have said before, it has a REALLY hard time doing a good solid red (but I finally figured out how to do it) in the highest resolution. Also, it is VERY expensive to purchase and operate. The MD-5000 (2400 dpi) goes for about $500. The Postscript driver is another $125. If you want to run it with a Mac (and who wouldn't?) the interface is another $70. And then there is the Dye-Sublimation option to do photographs for $80. I think we're up to $775. Add to that the $500 (although you can easily spend well over $1000) for the software, and at least $200 for the extra RAM that you will need to run all this stuff, and you're talking big bucks! The printer is a CYMK (Cyan, Yellow, Magenta, Black) process and and each of the cartridges costs about $6 and lasts about 40 pages. The white and metalic cartridges cost about double that and last for only 10 pages. For most applications, you must print a backing of white under the image for it to look right. So you can see, this is not for the faint of heart or the light of pocketbook. The MD-1000 or 1300 are good printers too, but the results are not nearly as good as the 5000 and the pixelization (noticeable dots) is rather bad for some colors. I use a Mac G4 450MHz, 384MB RAM, 3 hard disks for a total of 36GB, and a 17 inch display although I REALLY want to get a 21 inch. If I were in this for the money, it wouldn't be worth it. Best Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Nick Wellington Subject: USS San Fransisco props + current projects I'm new to this list, and have never posted before, just in case anyone wants to know. Anyway, I'm scratchbuilding a model of the USS San Fransisco in 1/192 scale circa late 1944, and was wondering if anyone knew where I could get the screws for this model, or at least how I could build them. I've tried HR, and am ordering $100 worth of fittings from them, but they only have 3 and 5 bladed props in this scale. Any help would be appreciated. My current projects include: USS San Fransisco CA38 1944 DML USS Bunker Hill CG52 Aoshima USS North Carolina (just have to wait for my 20mms to arrive, the kit supplied ones are some of the worst I've seen) Projects I want to start: -ISWs Subchaser (hey, I've never done resin before,gotta start somewhere) -ISWs USS Nashville, I'm getting this kit for Christmas, Brooklyn class CLs look so cool. -ISWs or CWs USS Alaska, Alaska class CBs are in my view the best looking ships EVER, but people give me weird looks when I say I want to save up for a $300 model=) -ISWs USS Tennessee 1944, it's so... wide Oh, and in case anyone is wondering why I want so many ISW kits, two words: Free shipping (why do most companies charge an extra 10% to ship to Canada, its not THAT far?!?!) Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Andrew Hough" Subject: Decals and Liberty Ships A number of questions have been asked recently about alternatives to ALPS printers as a means for producing your own decals. A news article in the September/October issue of "Ships in Scale" (an American ship modelling magazine more usually noted for wooden ship modelling techniques) mentions the use of Decal-Pro as follows:- "Now you can transfer your original, scanned or photocopied artwork to Decal-Pro and create your own decals. Simply feed a sheet of T.M. Marketing's special paper through any printer or copier that accepts cardstock and out comes your decal". The article goes on to suggest you look for Decal-Pro in your local hobby shop. The same issue of the magazine also has an article on the Liberty Ship John W. Brown which includes a number of photographs of the guns which may of use to plastic ship modellers. Regards Andrew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Bilge Pumps >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. << Paul: Go to any auto parts store and pick up a windshield washer pump. They are just right for bilge pumps and fire monitor nozzles. Hook the input up to an intake port and plub the bilge outlets to the output side and you are in business. Use surgical tube and aquarium air hose fittings for the connections. Most pumps will be 12 volt but you may be able to find a 6 volt pump for an older foreign car. RAM also makes a bilge pump set up using this kind of pump and a sensor to turn it on when water gets into the bilge. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: mitch fisher Subject: Re: bilge pumps I have two suggestions for simulating a bilge pump on RC models. An automotive windshield washer pump will work and is fairly cheap from a wrecking yard, the trick is finding one small enough for your application. Also the small pumps sold at hobby shops for pumping fuel. Either way you will probably have to mess around with voltage and inlet/outlet line size to get a realistic discharge. Mitch Fisher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: Water pump for bilge in 1/400 For Paul Bishop Micro-Mark has a submersible water pump on p.21 of their latest catalog for $19.95. Don't think it will fit in the hull of a 1/400 model (maybe horizontally) - it measures 3 3/4" high by 1 1/4"x 1 7/8" - but if this is a display model on a diorama I assume you could make some arrangement for the runoff to drain back into a hidden container in which you could submerge the pump. The catalog says it will run on DC voltages up to 12v - can use a model railroad power pack or batteries - and draws 1 amp at 6v, 1.8 amps at 12 volts. The capacity is 8.5 quarts/min, (at 12v, I guess) so you may want to run it at very low voltage. Micro-Mark's number is 800-225-1066. Hope this helps Denis Campbell Avon MA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: More on Dazzle Camo I looked up the FSM article James was talking about (OCT. '98). The sidebar has a port side drawing of Sara with and without dazzle. The view approximates a distance of 6 miles. In the unpainted view she appears to be moving directly to the left. In the dazzle (MS 32/11A) she appears to be on a diagonal course, approaching towards the right. Looks more like a CA than a CVA Mark Doremus PS, It's a great looking Sara in the article James. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "graham" Subject: Hood Hi can anybody help, in the Times either last year or early this year there was a piece about divers finding an Anchor from HMS Hood from when she slipped anchor to meet the Bismarck. What I want to know which one did she slip? As to model her as lost she would only have one Anchor left, Port or Starboard? best wishes Graham. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Decals I have had good luck using a color photocopier with decal stock. You can either use existing decal sheets, or print your own on an inkjet printer. One nice thing about the photocopier is that you can enlarge or reduce your artwork. Thus, you can take a 1/700 decal sheet, use 200% enlargement, and produce the same sheet in 1/350. Usually you have to seal the resulting sheet with a clear gloss overcoat before you use it, but that is not a big deal. The one thing to remember though, is that photocopiers do not print white, they rely on the color of the paper underneath for white. So you have to figure a way around that, I have had luck painting a little white on the subject, and then applying the decal over it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jeffry J. Fontaine" Subject: Re: Alps and Decals A friend of mine told me that he has been making decals using an inkjet printer and blank decal paper with success. The only preparations he has made to the blank decal sheet is to spray a light coat of "dull coat" on the blank decal paper before it is run through the printer and again after the ink has dried to set it in place. Not having witnessed the creation of these decals, I can not say for sure if this solves the problem, but I have seen the finished product and it looked presentable. Regards, Jeffry Fontaine From Beautiful Bremerton, Washington and uncomfortably distanced from the Moldy City of Seattle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "James Kloek" Subject: USS California Our local IPMS chapter had its annual contest and show last Sunday (Rocon 20, thanks to those SMMLies who were sponsors, photos of the winners are soon to be forthcoming) and Ted Paris (Iron Shipwright/Commanders), who is a Rochester resident, was there with a lot of goodies. Included was the Tennessee/California/West Virgina, which looked to be a very nice kit, it can be built up into any of the three. I have built the 1941 California Ted also produced, and it also built up to a wonderful model. As has been noted several times on this list, Ted gives outstanding customer service. If you want that Prune Barge, go for it. I am going to, and then I will have two of them, before and after. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone trying this. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. << Have you tried looking in a marina or somewhere else that sells boats? If I remember correctly, I have seen some pumps that are 5 or 6 inches or so long in such places. Another alternative is to look in a pet store in the aquarium supply section. And last, but not least, you might find something in a fishing tackle shop. Some of the fancier bass boats have aerated live wells. And I just remembered, I've seen those small, decorative waterfall-waterwheel things in craft and gift shops. They have a small water pump in them. Good luck. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Bilge pump and Decals Paul Bishop wrote: >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone trying this. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. << There are pumps made for RC warship combat sold by http://www.swampworks.com/ Alternatively, I have had success with replacement car windshield water pumps from the local parts supplier (Canadian Tire in this case). Decals: Lot's of responses about Inkjets and lasers, the problem with inkjets has been explained clear enough. Here's some info about lasers, I used to make up artwork and take a couple of sheets of decal film to a local copy place that had a color copier and semi competent people working there. The laser would print the colors ok, but unfortunately without white backing they looked pale or faded. If they were used on a white surface, they were ok, but otherwise they didn't look quite right. I even went so far as to get a set of white rubdown transfers made for the decal backing, this method was a little pricey, although it worked nicely. Most laser printers will make black decals just fine and I've seen people use them to make an outline and paint the decal colors on. Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Bilge Pumps for Yamato Paul Bishop writes: >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone trying this. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. << One problem with bilge pumps, even in larger scale boats, is that water does not scale down, so you either wind up with an unrealistic stream out the side of the model, or an unrealistic dribble down the side. That said, you might look into electric fuel pumps sold for the transfer of model airplane fuel - I have used a brand called "Mark X" before for a bow thruster (really just a pump) in a small scale model. You could even take a crack at making your own pump - I was looking at a model two days ago that used a copper heatsink as the impeller in a home made bow thruster. For your purposes, efficiency would not be much of a consideration, making the tolerances very generous. Cordially, Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Dboykap@aol.com Subject: Re: IJN DD Harusame/IJN DD Books/Fujimi Lexington To Francisco: Tamiya's mid to late war configuration for Harusame is likely correct, though I am not aware of any late war photo of her or her sisters that can prove definitive. All of the Shiratsuyu class bore the brunt of the fighting from the war's outset; 6 of the 10 survived thru to early 1944, including Harusame. As such, she was a likely candidate for the AA refits that typified IJN DDs as the war progressed. She participated fully in the Guadalcanal campaign but suffered heavy damage after being torpedoed by the USS Wahoo in January '43, barely 3 weeks after a lengthy overhaul at Yokosuka. She returned to Yokosuka for several months of repair before rejoining the fleet in December. It is likely that, given the amount of time spent at Yokosuka, that there was ample opportunity to complete an extensive refit that included replacing X turret with a triple 25mm mount in addition to the other AA upgrades. Harusame was sunk June 8 1944 by US Army B-25s off Biak while escorting a convoy of troop transports. To Jerry: Following up on Shane's response, english language references for IJN DDs are not plentiful. One is the Warships Profile #22 on the Yukikaze - it's a concise summary of IJN DD developement and is worth having for reference and photos. Thru the Warships site, you can link to Jon Parshall's Nihon Kaigun site which contains an extensive bibliography (English & Japanese) of IJN related topics and technical references. (In fact, this same site has a section devoted to the tabular record of movement (TROM) for all the IJN DDs, which is where I extracted the material cited above.) Not yet listed in the bibliography are two Japanese language sources that are excellent for modeling IJN destroyers. One is the volume from Gran Prix Books on IJN DDS - if you're familiar with Tamiya's Random Notes booklets, then know that those illustrations are drawn from this series. The other source is contained in the recent issues from Gakken Books, which depict 1/100 & 1/200 museum quality models of IJN warships. #18 highlights the Ushio and Fubuki class DDs, # 19 highlights the Yukikaze. I think a new one on the Akizuki has also been released. These books are available thru either Pacific Front Hobbies in the U.S or Hobby Link Japan. To Rod: This month on the Navismagazine site is a kit review of the Fujimi Lexington. The article says it was issued in the early '80s and is considered one of Fujimi's best efforts. The kit depicts, if I remember correctly, Lexington's fit from 1937 to early 1942. The review was favorable; only the 5" guns stick out in memory as being pitiful. Dan Kaplan, NYC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: FSM Article: ALPS printer >> Yes there is a cheaper way. Find someone on this list or another similar list to print them for you on their Alps. Ink Jet printers do not have waterproof ink. Very messy... << Your remark about waterproof inks raises an interesting thought experiment. How about refilling an empty ink cartridge from a regular inkjet printer with ALPs ink. Clean out the empty cartridge first with a dilute solution of alcohol and then use a hypodermic syringe to do the ink transfer. Inkjet printer technology should be the same as ALPS make no claims about a breakthrough in that area. ALPS ink on a regular printer might just work. Anyone with an old inkjet printer care to experiment? Kelvin Mok (klmok@home.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Bilge pump for 1/200 Nichimo Yamato >> I have been thinking about using a small 6 or 12 v water pump in my 1/200 scale rc model of the Yamato to simulate the bilge pumps. I can't find a source for a water pump this small. Has anyone tried this, or heard of anyone trying this. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. << I have seen a small diaphragm pump run off a 6V toy motor (1.25 in dia) that was salvaged from a plans printer-toner pump. This was sold by a city tools supplier for farms and tradesmen. Priced at $19.95 Cdn. Hobby shops sell higher capacity fuel pumps for RC aircraft and for submarine ballast tanks. Those run around $50 or more. Kelvin Mok (klmok@home.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: home made decals I've been making my own decals on an ALPS for about three years. Besides ships I like to model "Golden Age" aircraft and no one makes decals for those. It's no secret that I have done small decal jobs for many on this list and my standard price has always been the same, no charge, simply pass on the favor and help someone else some time. However, I have no desire to enter the decal making business, I am too busy with my own work. The costs..... decal paper, and ink. I already had the computer and scanner, and the low end ALPS cost no more than a regular ink jet printer. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Trivia Trivia will be down until Monday evening, I'm on my way to Montreal to visit the folks, who are technologically impaired. Best, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Tom's Modelworks Update The Tom's Modelworks website is currently being updated to include, FREE, instructions for our photoetched brass sets, and previews of sets online. Coming soon will be also be complete instructions download for our ship kits currently in production. Visit our site at www.tomsmodelworks.com and click on Instructions Downloads to check out this new feature. In addition: To celebrate our biggest year in brass sales and development, we at Tom's Modelworks would like to help cut your holiday expenses. From now until January 1st, 2000, we are offering a 5% discount for each $20 of brass ordered, up to a maximum of 25%. This means that you can take $25 off an $100 order. In addition when purchasing $30 worth of 1/700 scale brass you will receive FREE, while supplies last, set #742 our new US Carrier perforated catwalk with attached rails. All customers ordering $100 or more will also received a certificate good for an additional 25% discount off your next order regardless of the order amount. Thank you for making 1999 our best year yet!!! Tom Harrison -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Attention Pacific Northwest SMMLies Hello fellow dwellers of the rain forest, The Vancouver IPMS show will be held October 9th at the Bonser Rec Centre from 0900 - 1600 hrs. If any list members other than Rob Brown and myself (Rick? Brian?) are planning to attend please let me know. Hopefully we can get together and shoot some holes in the sky. If you do not know how to get there, let me know and I will scan some maps and email them to you. Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume