Subject: SMML VOL 1256 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:54:04 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Hipper Class a la Koop 2: Re: SMS Scharnhorst Gneisenau Paint Schemes 3: CSS Alabama Colors and Decking 4: Re: Deck colour of WW1 British capital ships 5: VCR Alert 6: Washington War Dates 7: Re: BB Trivia 8: Re: movie stuff 9: Swede Momsen story told by NBC TV Movie 10: Re: Historical accuracy 11: If they'd only bombed Hollywood... 12: Re: BB Trivia 13: Re: Pearl Harbor, etc., etc. 14: Butch O'Hare story 15: Damage to Rodney 16: Whats New? 17: working with plasticard 18: PEARL HARBOR COMMEMORATIVE BOOKS.... 19: ICM 1/350 scale SMS KONIG model. ANY PICTURES OF COMPLETED MODELS ON THE WEB YET?? 20: Re: Battleship Trivia 21: Pearl Harbor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Washington DC area SMMLcon this Sunday -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: CSS Alabamas 2: HMS Tiger & HMS Royal Sov 3: OT: OzMod's Injection Moulded 1/144 Mig-15UTI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: JoeSims@webtv.net (Joe Sims) Subject: Hipper Class a la Koop Peter M. You said you're doing a review on Koop's "Hipper Class". Is the darn thing worth near $50.00's ? If it's as good as the Scharnhorst class-then yes. If it's a re-hash of existing info like the "Bismark Class" - then no. Of course I have nothing in english on the "Hipper Class" so almost anything will be an improvement. Thanks, Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: SMS Scharnhorst Gneisenau Paint Schemes Dave, Thanks for doing better research than I on this subject. I hope that I got the colors right. This one of those good things about this list. I should have got it right, since I to have the Huff book on the Emden, although it is a slow read for me as I do not speak or read German. I have learned something new today. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Joel Labow Subject: CSS Alabama Colors and Decking >> I am building this for the third time and would like to know, 1. Whether to use matt, gloss or semi-gloss colours. 2. Which brand of paint gives the best results, 3. what colour or combination of colours will give the best appearance to the deck so that it looks like wood. << An 'In-Box' review of the Revell Alabama and Kearsarge kits will be appearing shortly on the Steelnavy site. In general during the age of sail the additives needed to make paint glossy were very expensive and used very sparingly as a result. Except for the ornamentation on large 17th and 18th century warships most paints were flat or matte. As far as the deck goes, the dividing lines between the three sections will be virtually impossible to cover up in 1/96 scale. When I build my Kearsarge I plan to use the plastic deck as a foundation for either scribed wood or individual planks. Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Deck colour of WW1 British capital ships >> Does anyone know what the colour of the superstructure decks of British battleships and battlecruisers (eg HMS Lion) was in WW1. Were they the same grey as the vertical surfaces, or a much darker grey. Also, was linoleum (?corticene) used on any decks? << Ken, Have you tried looking thru the following books for info; Battlecruisers by Roberts British Battleships 1880-1904 by Burt British Battleships of World War One by Burt AOTS Warspite, Dreadnought, & Hood Give me more time and I will try to look thru the color photo collection of models at the Imperial War Museum and the Maritime Museum. Also, will have a couple of books for you and Lester off by next week via FedEx. Please e-mail me your business address, so I may send them there. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: VCR Alert This one seems to have slipped under the radar: NBC (I Think) is doing a movie on the USS Squalus rescue, either this or next Sunday. If I hear more, I will post details. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Btbldr" Subject: Washington War Dates >> Did not have a clue that an American battleship took part in Polish Campaing in September 1939. Pray tell me on whose side ??? ;-) What exactly was she up to between September 1939 and December 6th, 1941? WTIC << Thankfully y'all replied "Tongue In Cheek" or winking. About the dates - I was just quoting from the Seattle article...so moan at them :-) Actually the war started in the early thirties in Manchuria, or was it because the Versailles treaty angered Germans? No that was because of Bismarck's campaign against the French years before that, which was because....I got it - Adam should never have nibbled on that apple! BTW - the Washington was using a cloaking device stolen from the Romulus by way of a Ferengi trader - so it was actually involved from the start - proof - see Charles Berlitz Philadelphia Experiment WTVVVVVVFIC - in fact sticking out by a mile ! :-) :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Craig Bennett Subject: Re: BB Trivia Concerning the USS WASHINGTON BB-56 her activities between Sept1,1939 to Dec 6,1941. The Washington was built at the Philadelphia Navy Yard and entered service in May,1941. She suffered from engine problems like her sister North Carolina she reportly was at sea with the Hornet CV-8 on sea trials in the Gulf of Mexico on 12/7/41. On new kit releases I just bought a copy of Shangai Dragon 2001 catalogue and it's new 1/700 kits are the Oscar Austin, Mobil Bay, and the French Frigate Lafayette F-712. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: movie stuff >> I'll watch From Here to Eternity, when I want history of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'll watch Tora Tora Tora (its own errors notwithstanding). special effects and surround sound do not an epic make. << I've been staying out of this because I get my history from books and entertainment from movies, they don't seem to mix well but I enjoy them both (and by the way, there's a lot of trash in books too). What I really want to tell you is this. I was in basic training in 1953 when "From Here to Eternity" was showing. It was not allowed to be shown on base and we were forbidden to go see it off base. (yes, believe it or not, back then members of the military could be told what to do and not to do). Suposedly that movie made the military look bad. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: Swede Momsen story told by NBC TV Movie Friends at SMML: Just a note to inform you that I have noticed that NBC will broadcast the made-for-television movie "Submerged" on Sunday May 20, 2001. Sam Neill plays Charles Bowers "Swede" Momsen who invented the Momsen Lung and the McCann Rescue Chamber which saved the lives of the men of the USS Squalus in 1939. It is based upon the book by Peter Mass _The Terrible Hours_ which is a rewrite of his first book _The Rescuer_. For those of you interested in the S-boats (S-4 and S-51) as well as the Sargo class Sculpin and Squalus/Sailfish, the should be a treat. Here's hoping they don't "Pearl Harbor" this story. Kevin W. Woodruff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Historical accuracy >> For an excellent study on Pearl Harbor read the 50th Anniversary edition of "At Dawn We Slept" by Prange and "Day of Infamy" by Lord. Both are available in trade paperback editions. Barnes and Noble University also offers a free internet course on the subject using these two books as material. << Amidst all the posts on Pearl Harbor and historical accuracy,and pertaining to said Barnes & Noble.... I was in B&N last weekend, and picked up a book The USS Pampanito Killer Angel (Quite good BTW). Anyhow, there in the general history section where several books on the topic of UFOs. ("Day After Roswell" was one title, which purported that all microprocessors were derived from alien technology from the crashed UFO. Mulder, Scully??). I was basically pretty upset that speculative books on such subjects were placed under General World History. So, I am not surprised that Hollywood allows accuracy to take a back seat to entertainment. Sad commentary, but people like their stories to have neat symmetries and character justice. Not like real life at all. Would you like fries with that? Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: dlfowler@uscg.net Subject: If they'd only bombed Hollywood... Hello Shane, >> I have to wonder whether the Japanese chose the correct target to begin their part of WW2. If they'd only bombed *Hollywood* there's no way the USA would ever have won the war ;-) << If the Japanese had successfully attacked and captured Hollywood the US would have never know that there was a war on. They would have believed whatever was put up on the silver screen and things would be very much different today. Godzilla would be eating New York! Oh, wait a minute... Best Regards, Duane P.S. Dave: I didn't mean to infere that this was a forum dedicated to naval hisory, just that as a group of people interested in modeling naval subjects and from what I have read, interested in accurately doing so, the general knowledgebase of the members in this subject is somewhat higher than that of the public at large. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Ramires, Filipe C" Subject: Re: BB Trivia Hello list D. P. said: >> Did not have a clue that an American battleship took part in Polish Campaign in September 1939. Pray tell me on whose side ??? ;-)" << Good show. What happened to Warspite, Rodney, Nelson. Besides...the Polish Navy have full wright to said that they have fought since the beginning to the end of the war. For example the ORP Blyscawica!!! Regards!!! FCR Colchester, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor, etc., etc. There's something inaccurate in the movie "THE ALAMO?" Harrumph, next thing you are going to say is that the movie "They Died with Their Boots On" was not an accurate portrayal of George Armstrong Custer! Here's what I'm goning to do: I'm going to buy me a soda and some popcorn and watch a "B" grade movie with an "A" grade budget. I'm going to watch A6M5s chasing P-40Ks. I'm going to watch the Oklahoma roll over on its starboard side after taking torpedoes on its port side. I'm going to watch Doris Miller knock down Zeroes with a twin 20mm pom pom instead of a single .50 caliber. Then, hopefully there'll be a lull while I go to the rest room. Then back in the theater to watch Alec Baldwin, er, Doolittle lead the attack on Tokyo. Sounds like a great way to spend two hours on a Saturday afternoon. Waaahoooo! Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Butch O'Hare story Talk about a fictional movie .........jeez's!!! Hey Franklyn, where did you get that clipping abou O'Hare's wartime exploits! Talk about inaccurate. Author John Lundstrum's biography about O'Hare, or his book "The First Team" will tell the actual story. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Damage to Rodney >> In regard to Kelvin Moks comments about Bismark. The Brits had just lost HMS Hood, the "Pride" of the fleet, with a loss of all hands, save three. The Brits pummeled the Bismark with over a thousand rounds. Rodney had suffered major damage due to continuous firing of her guns. It wasn't so much a factor of minimizing a military asset, as it was "Sink the bugger". It had a great psychological impact on the home front and the RN when Bismark was sunk. Not a great tactical loss, as the U boats were far more a real threat than Bismark, but a great psychological victory for the RN. (IMHO) << Mark, That's new information to me about "Rodney had suffered major damage due to continuous firing of her guns." Can you give more details? Thanks, Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Subject: Whats New? I have enjoyed reading our lists of late and much appreciate the effort(s) put in by our Australian web masters, who seem to have doubled their efforts. Very many thanks. The comment about this film due out very soon, is like Titanic, based on fact, but facts altered to suit! Hey, even Harbour is spelt wrong. I must confess that "The Cruel Sea" produced in the 50's in B & W is one of my favourites. OK, its based upon a great book, but it is a record of fact. (I still eat "Snorkers -good oh). A few other British films were produced to a similar standard, Morning Departure, The Dam Busters, Yangtse Incident etc.come to mind. All based upon facts, without too much of a romantic side step, but using authentic material of the period. I was aboard HMS Sluys when HMS Amethyst was towed away from the reserve fleet to become a film star in the China of Harwich mudflats. Now, Sink the Bismarck, I did not enjoy. Not the fact that USS Salem represented the Axis ship, but the fact that when shells were coming inboard, the bridge staff were standing in their whites, just ducking and saying "Gosh that was near". Tin hats and anti-flash gear would have been standard issue anyway, but that way the stars could not show off their looks. Models you have made, brings to mind one of my last efforts at super detailing. The Frog, Battle Class Destroyer, HMS Cadiz. In the days long before photetch I had made guard-rails etc, and changed her to become HMS Sluys, one of the Battle class that I served on. I will NOT talk about wives. 1, 2, 3 or 4, - but I'm happy! (No 3 was most supportive though). I wrote in these lists about three weeks ago that my Warship and Weapons Plans website had been updated. I was premature! It had, but not like now. It has since received a complete update and face lift. New layout, new colour and a complete revamp to make it more user friendly. My latest subjects drawn, FAC, and comments are now invited. My thanks to Eberhard for all his efforts on my behalf. Let me see your feedback. Yours "Aye" John Lambert Hi John, I think you may be getting your movies confused here ;-). USS Salem played the Graf Spee in "Battle of the River Plate". Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: working with plasticard I have (at least) two problems working with plasticard. Can you put me right? 1) what are the tools and techniques used to cut plasticard to exact right angles? (As in building new deckhouses for Tamiya's O'Class) 2) how do you bend plasticard? (As in curved portions of covered railings). I mange to either break (when I don't heat it) or melt it (when I do heat it). Your assistance will be greatly appreciated, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: PEARL HARBOR COMMEMORATIVE BOOKS.... Just wondering whats out there now about Pearl Harbor 60th Anniversary Books right now. I just bought the brand new PEARL HARBOR THE DAY OF INFAMY AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY by Dan Van Der Vat, intro by sen. John McCain......hardcover with dj, 10 x10, 175 Pages, published by Penguin Books Canada Ltd., Penguin Studio/Madison Press Book.... beautifull repros of the paintings by Tom Freeman----OKLAHOMA rolling over is awesome, 'The Last Mooring", and last moment of ARIZONA are increidible. Now, most if not all the pictures have all been published before but its a great commemorative book with good anecdotal text and present day pictures compared to same scenes from 1941. Is this book on your stores shelves too??? It hit me for $50. Got it at Chapters....close equivalent to your Barnes and Noble. Are there more, and other titled PEAR HARBOR books out there or coming out??? Ray D. Bean Winnipeg, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Nick Rogers" Subject: ICM 1/350 scale SMS KONIG model. ANY PICTURES OF COMPLETED MODELS ON THE WEB YET?? Hello SMML types, I was admiring the glorious colour type pictures of Mike Ashey's completed SMS Konig model in the May Issue of Fine Scale Modeller magazine this week. Suddenly I was overcome with the realisation that this is the only completed SMS Konig model I have yet seen. I had been enjoying Andy Elwood's series on building the kit on www.modelwarships.com Unfortunately the project has stalled at Part #3. Perhaps his dog sat on it? I know of a fine fellow in the snowy wastes of Wisconsin who is well on the way to finishing a SMS Kronprinz. Otherwise I know of no other Konig class 1/350 scale kit marvels that are building. Can anyone advise if there are Images of built up model of SMS Konigs on the web yet? Or are these super-dreadnoughts of Kaiser Bill's Navy all languishing in attics? Regards, Nick Rogers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Battleship Trivia >> Do you know which ship: Fought everyday of the war (WWII) << >> Did not have a clue that an American battleship took part in Polish Campaing in September 1939. Pray tell me on whose side ??? ;-) << And there is another point of view that WWII actually started in China in the early 30's. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister http://www.egroups.com/group/WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Pearl Harbor I just sent this out to all my non-historically oriented keypals. Given the recent discussion here, perhaps some of you would like to do the same. I figured this was easier than trying to explain the inaccuracies for those who might be interested. >> With the upcoming release of the new Pearl Harbor movie (which you can bet is going to be more Hollywood than Historical), I thought I'd suggest a few websites for those who might be interested in the facts. http://www.execpc.com/~dschaaf/mainmenu.html http://www.GeoCities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5115/Main.html http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq66-1.htm http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/pearlhbr.htm http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/EastWind/index.html http://www.warships1.com/W-OOB/default_Pearl.htm http://dizzy.library.arizona.edu/images/USS_Arizona/USS_Arizona.shtml http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/battleships/ This list isn't conclusive by a long shot, but it should be enough to get one started. Derek Wakefield USS_California_BB44@Yahoo.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Washington DC area SMMLcon this Sunday Folks: Just a reminder that the next Washington, DC area SMMLcon is this Sunday, 20 May 2001, 1-3 PM, at Nostalgic Plastic Hobbies in Silver Spring, Maryland. Those planning to attend are invited to bring your current modeling project, recently finished or acquired kits, books, and other modeling related items for "show and tell." Nostalgic Plastic is located at 2425 Linden Lane, Silver Spring, Maryland.It is about 5 minutes south of the DC beltway. To get there, take the DC Beltway (I-495) to Silver Spring, and exit at Georgia Avenue SOUTH. Merge onto Georgia Avenue, continue south for less than a minute, pass the stop light at Seminary Place, continue straigh another hundred feet or so, then turn right at the second light (i.e. the next light) onto Seminary Road (do not be confused by the sign for Columbia Blvd; the right turn at the second light is indeed Seminary Road). Go down Seminary Road a minute or so, and continue straight onto Linden Lane when Seminary Road veers off to the left at the elementary school. Continue down Linden Lane a minute or so more until you get to the strip mall on the right, and pull into the parking lot there. Nostalgic Plastic is located at 2425 Linden Lane, and Nostalgic Plastic Automotive, where we will be meeting, is located at 2417 Linden Lane. If you find yourself going over an overpass and at the Walter Reade Army Medical Clinic Annex, you've gone too far by a few hundred feet. If you get lost, you can call the store at (301)565-0565, and they should be able to help you with directions. Hope to see you on May 20! Mike E -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: CSS Alabamas Yes we still have these kits. http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/civil_war.html Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: HMS Tiger & HMS Royal Sov Two new kits in stock from Eastern Express. 1/500 HMS Royal Sovereign & 1/415 HMS Tiger Post WWII Config. Updated Radar & Mast, All Gun Cruiser Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Greg Anderson" Subject: OT: OzMod's Injection Moulded 1/144 Mig-15UTI NOW AVAILABLE! OzMod's First Injection Moulded Kit! 1/144 Mig-15UTI Injection moulded! Detailed cockpit! Moulded in dark grey styrene! Ultra Clear Vacform Canopy (2 supplied in kit)! Decals for North Vietnam Air Force and Polish Air Force! PRICE Aus$12.65 (plus Aus$3 posted within Australia = TOTAL Aus$15.65) (Aus$7 posted overseas = TOTAL Aus$19.65) (Take advantage of the low Australian dollar. Aus$1 = US$0.52 or UK£0.35) Order now! Phone, fax or E-mail your order - Payment by Visa, Bankcard, Mastercard - Or post your order with Cheque or Money Order. OZMODS AUSTRALIAN MODELS & PRINTPRO PUBLISHING SERVICES ABN 63 016 766 071 Proprietor: Greg Anderson Postal Address: PO Box 1083, Gailes, QLD 4300, Australia. Phone: (07) 3424 1724. Mobile: 0421 044 824. Fax: (07) 3389 0923. E-mail: ozmods@optushome.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume