Subject: SMML VOL 1468 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:26:39 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: pictures for identification 2: Thanks, and photographed ships 3: Re: Banner Arizona/Pennys 4: Re: War Prize question 5: Re: Fiji & Trinidad 6: Banner Arizona to Pennsylvania 7: Re: Mystery battleship in hollywood movies 8: Banner Arizona to Pennsy 9: Re: Rattlesnake 10: I am looking for information on uss wasp cv-7 model kits 11: Re: Fiji and Trinidad 12: Revell 1:480 Pittsburgh 13: Great Lakes Ship Models 14: Re: Fiji and Trinidad 15: RN Shortest Battle Life 16: Nimitz Double Suicide -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Corvette Website -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: pictures for identification Could someone provide me pictures of these ships? Mariupol ex Ion C. Bratianu in 1944 Nura (1982, chemical cargo, rotator ship) Zhelesniakov (see http://picpage7.tripod.com/zhelezniakov.html) New Questions Argun (Soviet minelayer) armament, date of entry into service Debrecen (Hungarian river gunboat, ex k.u.k. Lachs) armament in 1944, since when armed like that? G-10 (Soviet MTB) date of entry into service L-5 (Soviet MTB 1940s) date of entry into service, armament 20.Maryupol ex-Ion C. Bratianu (Soviet ex Rumanian river monitor) since when did it carry the 1944-armament? What did it carry as armament then? P 1551 and P 1552 (South African SAR boats ~1962, derived from German FL9 type) date of commission PN 31 - PN 33 (Hungarian river gunboats) date of entry into service Vanya No. 5 (Russian river gun paddle boat 1900s) armament, date of entry into service Yushar (Soviet minelayer) armament, date of entry into service Hiro H1H2 = Navy Type 15: date of entry into service of the Lorraine W-12 and the BMW engined version Hiro H2H1 = Navy Type 89: date of entry into service Hiro H4H: any info about H4H1 and H4H2 please Mil Mi-24PV = Mi-24VP: date of entry into service Yokusuka E1Y3: date of entry into service For further details, please visit my homepage. Thank you in advance!!! Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Thanks, and photographed ships Many thanks to all who offered advice on the painting of Richelieu. I decided to build her as "the other Vietnam battleship", so wanted to know what she looked like then. I've order the Dumas book, and am looking for the S+V. As for least photographed ships, I'll put up Shinano. There are only two blurry shots that I've ever seen. Joe Poutre http://www.bb62museum.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Banner Arizona/Pennys >> I want to convert the Banner Arizona Kit, into the Pennsylvania. What modifications will I need to make, or can I do a straight build out of the box, I do plane to use GM or Tom's photo etch, whichever one has the Pennsy. parts. But is there any other conversion kit, or modification I need to do. << George, depends on what time period you want to do, both ships had modifications at different times. Also Pennsylvania's forward superstructure is different in that the armored conning tower was higher and the decks were different to accommodate it. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Donald Woolley Subject: Re: War Prize question >> Once again this year I plan on helping out the J-aircraft.com guys with their Nats project. The theme is "in alien markings" so I've decided to do a war prize ship. So far I've found that DD-934 was a Japanese DD but I've found conflicting descriptions. One claims it to have been an Akizuki class and another says it was Hanazuki. Can anyone shed some light on this ship? << The U.S. Navy Ship 20th Century Historical Database (http://www.nwc.navy.mil/usnhdb/default.htm) lists DD-934 as follows: DD 934 HANATSUKI ( DD 934 CLASS ) War prize. Hull number assigned to Japanese destroyer Hanatsuki surrendered at Kure in 1945. Transferred to US Navy, 28 Aug 1947. Sunk as target off Tsingtao, China, 3 Feb 1948. It also lists DD-935 as having been German Torpedo Boat T-35 Donald Woolley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Re: Fiji & Trinidad Hi John, Regarding the quad .5-in guns fitted to the Fiji and the Trinidad: Fiji: 2 quad .5-in guns with shields fitted on signal deck if front of the HACSs, the other two are possibly on the after superstructure (see photo Whitley, Cruisers of World War Two, p.121, 20.8.1940). Trinidad: I think, that she had two 2 quad .5-in guns on the after superstructure like Mauritius in 1942. They are besides the after HACS. (see photo of Mauritius, Whitley, p.124). The two Single 20mm were probably on the signal deck in front of the HACS. This light AA armarment would correspond to Mauritius in 1942, who had two additional 20mm on the stern. In 'Cruisers of the Royal Navy and Commenwealth Navies' by Douglas Morris is a photo of Trinidad on page 229, which appears to show the 20 mm on the signal deck. In 'Cruisers in Camera' by Roger Hayward are a photo on page 122, which shows possibly the 2 quad .5-in guns on the after superstructure. The problem with both images is, that they are not very sharp. Regards Lars -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Dave and Shannon Lesko" Subject: Banner Arizona to Pennsylvania GM's PE set for the Banner Arizona has the parts you will need to convert it to the Pennsylvania. It also has suggestions in the directions on what to change and is pretty nice. I have an extra GM set on the workbench, let me know and maybe we can make a deal for it :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: schiefet@cs.com Subject: Re: Mystery battleship in hollywood movies >> Alfred Hitchcock's 1942 movie "Saboteur" (a US propaganda remake of his former, British made film) ends with the "villain" trying to sabotage the launching of a new battleship, called "Alaska" in the movie. Hitchcock used -then censored- Navy footage, which shows a battleship being launched on a slip. From the shape of the fore hull, one may suppose this is a North Carolina or a South Dakota class BB. Can anyone give me the name of the real battleship? Andrew Davis recent movie, "Perfect Murder", starring Michael Douglas, displays in Douglas' office a large B&W photograph showing the launching of another BB. This is obviously an hommage to Hitchcock, as the movie comes from the famous play "Dial M for Murder", which also came into a movie in the 50's by Sir Alfred, starring Grace Kelly. This time, the battleship shown may be an "Iowa", but which one? << Hello Bruno, The photo in "Perfect Murder" is of the USS Missouri (BB-63). I eventually found it on a web page somewhere. Unfortunately I cannot recall where, but it could have been the USS Missouri's web page. Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Banner Arizona to Pennsy >> I want to convert the Banner Arizona Kit, into the Pennsylvania. What modifications will I need to make, or can I do a straight build out of the box, I do plane to use GM or Tom's photo etch, whichever one has the Pennsy. parts. But is there any other conversion kit, or modification I need to do. << George It's not a straight out of the box build. I haven't attempted it, but one of my best friends is a Pennsy fan so I've done some research on the matter. If you're wanting to do a 12/41 Pennsy, the biggest mod involves the foremast superstructure. The Pennsy was constructed originally to be the US Fleet Flagship, and thus she has a large - rather prominent - conning tower. The shape of the bridge platform levels are also somewhat different than those aboard the Arizona. This probably represents the biggest significant difference between the two ships, and pretty much requires tossing the kit parts and scratchbuilding your own. That...or wait for someone to build an aftermarket retro kit. According to Breyer's Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905-1970, the Pennsy's stack was 1.5 meters taller than the Arizona's following a 38-39 refit. She did not have the birdbath machine gun platform atop the mainmast like the Arizona did, but she was equipped with a CXAM radar set atop her foremast (Arizona was due to receive hers as part of a refit that she was scheduled to depart 13 Dec for). The Pennsy had the 3-in/50-cal guns that had been removed from Arizona in preparation for installation of 1.1 AA guns. The Banner includes the 3/50s but they aren't very good (I'd be hunting down aftermarket replacements). How many 3-in'er she had I'm not sure...most likely four. If I'm wrong, someone here will probably correct me on the matter. I've never seen a good aft-view of the ship in the 38-41 period to tell. Friedman's US Battleships states she was equipped with nine .50 mgs - probably four on the mainmast searchlight platform, two on stack platforms, two on the foremast platform above the bridge, and one ??? . Hopefully someone here can fill in that gap. From the photos I have seen, at PH the ship's 5/51 casemate gun compartments were open with the shutters locked back against the bulkheads and the canvas covers rolled up over the port. If that's what you're wanting to repro, then you've got your work cut out for you (this is what I have planned as a mod for my Banner kit). Not sure if any of the aftermarket firms offer 5/51 resin/white metal replacement parts. If you want to build her with her Kingfishers, one acronym....WEM (haven't bought them, but the pics I've seen are stunning). Of course, all of this is based on the ship's appearance at PH, which is what I've looked into. HTH Derek Wakefield PS: Also remember to remove the range clocks if you're doing a '41 Pennsy, as she had those removed sometime prior to PH. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Rattlesnake Dave, Thanks for the feedback on the Rattlesnake. I'm not quite ready yet to move over to wood, but the pic of the kit in the model expo catalog facinated me enough to spark my interest. Shall have to get the latest finescale and take a look at the article you mention. Most sailing ships appear intimidating to me because it's not an area I've ventured into. Probably isn't any harder than steel ships when you start factoring in brass, rigging, etc. An area that holds a lot of facination for me are the Republic of Texas Navy ships. Problem is...I've never seen to many refs (let alone kits) as to what they looked like. I've heard there are several books out now on the subject, but the details on the ships seem sparce. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Walden, Shane" Subject: I am looking for information on uss wasp cv-7 model kits Hi there, I am looking for am info on finding a cv-7 kit to build a replica of my father's ship. any help would be appreciated. Best of regards, Shane Walden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: MMclau1079@aol.com Subject: Re: Fiji and Trinidad Hi John, The Raven & Roberts book British Cruisers of World War II, lists HMS Fiji as having two separate quadruple 0.5 MK II mounts. I believe that one 0.5 mount is represented as a solid black silhouette in the Smith & Dominey 1940 profile drawing of Fiji. I believe they have the 0.5 mount placed just forward of the pom-pom director by the bridge. The photo's I have of Fiji are not focused enough to confirn this placement. However, Ross Watton's book on HMS Belfast, has a 1939 configuration drawing of that cruiser with a 0.5 mount in a similar location. The Raven & Roberts book lists Trinidad as having four separate quadruple 0.5 MK II mounts before her loss in 1942. This book has a photo of Trinidad in October of 1941 on pg. 422 that appears to show what may be a 0.5 or other mounting placed just forward of the aftermost pom-pom director. Hopefully, the photo interpretures of this site will get out their books and answer your questions better than I have. Regards, Miles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Revell 1:480 Pittsburgh I know it's crude, flat bottomed, etc. However, at long last I won one of these on ebay without having the price jacked up beyond reasonable levels. Well...sorta, at least it was under $35, and after two years of bidding and having it go beyond that point more times than I can remember, I consider that a victory. And these days I can't afford $80 or $275 for a REAL Pittsburgh. I still remember enough about this kit to know some of it's major pitfalls (too narrow of 8-in guns, blobs for seaplanes, molded on guns, inaccurate 5-in and 40mm guns, blobs for Mk-37 directors, way too thick gun shields, molded in solid ladders, etc, etc, etc). That said, it's been decades since I last owned one, so such, I'm curious as to what other problems you kind folks here may have noticed/found. The purpose for getting this one was more or less a stroll down memory lane, but I would like to improve/spruce it up a bit. 1:500 brass comes to mind, but that's probably the only thing aftermarket available for this particular model. Ya thought after giving away all my other Revell kits (save for a couple of 1:426 Arizonas and my 1:400'esque Mission Capistrano - re salvagable), I would've avoided this one. Like, all I have to do is look at the Boston on the shelf and be reminded what this one is going to be like (yech). Yet, somehow, this one is masocistically tempting. And hey, its bad enough that I don't have to worry about it looking 100% right. So what if I fab SC-1s for the cats and paint it up in razzle dazzle...who's gonna care? Hell, I could probably chop off the bow and claim typhoon damage and no one would care. Dadgum it, I could paint it neon orange with concentric rings, and................nah! Eagerly awaiting the bad news. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Great Lakes Ship Models The following website has a listing of Great Lakes freighter model kits. http://www.bearcomarine.com Another Great Lakes Website http://www.greatlakesmodeling.com/default.htm John Heasel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: Fiji and Trinidad Can't answer ALL of John's questions, but here are a few pointers: After a number of changes during the design stage, the Fiji's were eventually intended to have 2 quad .5" Vickers guns. Early members only carried these; a photo of FIJI in Whitley's 'Cruisers of World War Two', captioned 28 Aug 1940, shows one mounting on the lower bridge deck on the starboard side, just forward of the HA.DCT where a rangefinder had originally been planned. No similar mountings appear aft. She was refitted after her torpedoing, and appears to have had a second pair added, probably on the aft HA.DCT deck, sided, just for'd of the DCT (Kenya certainly had a paid of quad .5"s there) - photos of FIJI in Freetown after her repairs appear to show a 'blob' which could be one of the after mounts (see HMS FIJI Association website - http://hmsfiji.onweb.cx/). TRINIDAD was better photographed, albeit only (as far as I know) from the starboard side. A series taken in Plymouth Sound soon after she was completed show her with 4 mountings as described for FIJI, but no Oerlikons can be seen. Another shot taken in an Icelandic fjord is a bit indistinct aft, but again I could see no 20mm. Similarly, close study of the series showing TRINIDAD refuelling an 'F' class destroyer in late 1941 revealed no definite sign of 20mm guns, and certainly none on the quarterdeck. The late 41 shots (2 of which are on the Australian War Memorial site (http://www.awm.gov.au/database/photo.asp)) definitely show quad .5"s in the lower bridge wings, but the weapons in the after positions are less clear - could they be Oerlikons? On the other hand, Lenton's 'British Cruisers' states that the first five ships (ie FIJI, NIGERIA, KENYA, MAURITIUS and TRINIDAD) '... had two 20mm A.A. (2x1) guns added on the fo'c'sle' (without specifying which bit of the fo'c'sle!!) However, the last photo I checked, of TRINIDAD listing and on fire, shows 2 single Oerlikons on the quarterdeck, just for'd of the transom and symmetrically placed (unlike EDINBURGH's) - without circular 'guntubs' around them. As I've just found this photo, I'll have to amend my model - or leave her as built! My guess, for what it's worth, is that FIJI had 2 .5" mountings for'd, with a second pair added aft during her repairs; TRINIDAD had 4 on completion, but the after pair may have been replaced by single Oerlikons at some stage. At a very late point in her life, she was fitted with 2 single 20mm on the quarterdeck. As for Colony class books, I know of none - other than the narrative- form 'In Harm's Way' (sorry, can't recall the author) which describes KENYA's life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: RN Shortest Battle Life In response to the posting about short lived cruisers Fiji, Trinidad, and Spartan, I can think of one other RN ship with a very short life, the ex-Brazilian 'H' class destroyer HMS Havant. Completed in Dec 1939, one month working up, one month in dockyard hands repairing defects, and lost 01JUN40 off Dunkirk. That would be 3 months active service. Just for interest's sake, here are some dates for Fiji, Trinidad, and Spartan: Fiji: Commissioned 05MAY40 Lost 22MAY 41 with 5 months spent repairing torpedo damage. That makes 7 months active service. Trinidad: Commissioned 14OCT41 Lost 14 MAY 42, with 2 months laid up in the USSR repairing torpedo damage, which makes 5 months active service. Spartan: Commissioned 10AUG43 Lost 29JAN44, 5 months active service. Any others? Cheers Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Nimitz Double Suicide A rather sad note: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6420-2002Jan6.html MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Corvette Website Hi All, I have compiled all the kit reviews, builds and profile articles I have done so far into one website. The idea is to eventually have this as the one stop shop for anyone building one of the numerous kits on the market. To that end I welcome submissions of reviews of various kits, books etc. I am also compiling links (with descriptions of contents) for sites with corvette content. Another section I hope to develop is a gallery of models done by others. I will also eventually post some original, unpublished, photos once I gain permission to use them. The site is at http://www.totallyconfused.org/flower Regards, Bob Pearson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume