Subject: SMML VOL 1556 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:51:28 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Modelist Constructor on Tupe 7U Destroyers 2: USN Slang 1941, N - O 3: Hobby Shops Albany 4: Re: Chinese Companies 5: Chinese Companies 6: U.S.S. Arizona, "as is" 7: Countries and politics 8: Dragon 1/700 kit of RAN DDG 9: Trumpeter 10: Re: Chinese Companies 11: HP-Models Releases 12: discussion time again..hypothetical 13: Airbrushing acrylics 14: Last word on the "Chinese thing" 15: Re: Chinese Companies 16: HMS BELFAST & Pool of London 17: Chinese Companies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Modelist Constructor on Tupe 7U Destroyers >> Does anyone know where I can find the Modelist Constructor book on the Russian Type 7U destroyers of WWII? No, I checked and Pacific Front has sold out of them. << Sorry Art, you'll have to find a used copy: it's out of print. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: USN Slang 1941, N - O "Navy cocktail: castor oil gulluppgulluppgullupp...UGH!!" "Navy Day: open house for land visitors. Teddy Roosevelt's birthday." "Neptune certificate: given in ceremony on Equator." "Nitty: row or squabble." "Omnibus boat: you ride to shore in it when you get liberty." "One and a half striper: Lieutenant Junior Grade." "One striper: an Ensign, the starting grade for Commissioned Officers." "On report: means that you will have to explain to the Captain why you did something wrong." "On the stock: suspense awaiting definite information." "Ordinary seaman: "Seaman Second Class." [In the 1960s Navy, this was a Seaman Apprentice.] "O to Z: study book for Commissioned Officers." "Overnight Liberty: gives a gob a chance to sleep in a bed--that is, if he gets a chance to lie down...." Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Hobby Shops Albany Books shops in the Albany area; The Book Barn, Latham The Book Outlet, Troy Bryn Mawr Bookshop, Albany Dove and Hudson Books, Albany Bibliomania, Schenectady All of these are floor to ceiling packed used book shops within minutes of major travel routes. If you have more time and want to wonder into the country there are many more. If you have a weekend to kill you could easily get to 10 or more worthwhile used book shops in some beautiful areas around Albany. Best hobby shop: Mohawk Valley Railroad in Schenectady. Mostly trains but ships kits too. Make sure you check out the bargain attic as there are many ship kits at 50% or more off. There are many other hobby shops but I have not been in them for years so I can't say what they might have of interest. Jim P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Marsh Edwin Subject: Re: Chinese Companies To all, I somewhat confused about this latest outburst of indignation over the production of kits in Chna, and the copying that's alledgely associated with it. I do believe about two months ago, this same gentleman was making statements about how good it was to see Trumpeter coming out with these kits, and how it was smart that they were using other kits to insure their correctness, such as the Tom's Modelworks kit of the Essex and the BWN kit of the Hornet. In fact, he was so pleased with this that he was giving them his 1/350 pattern of the Indianapolis to insure that they were able to produce this kit correctly. Now, two month's later, he's railing about their lack of morality and corrupt actions. I'm sorry for having to ask this, but I just can't figure out where the situational ethics line is actually drawn in this discussion. Could someone out there who might know please clear this up for me? Edwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: 1250man@attbi.com Subject: Chinese Companies >> As a business decision Trumpeter obviously did something right. They saved on the cost of designing an original product and instead made a copy for immediate production to get a good feel of the production and distribution mechanics while learning and earning something in the process that will keep them in the game. << Kevin, while I agree with many of your remarks, I am simply stunned and dumbfounded by the above. You are saying that it was right for Trumpeter to steal from someone else so that they could make money to stay in business while developing their own competing products? I cannot imagine how you can endorse theft whether it is done by Chinese or American companies. People put a lot of money into developing original products. That is why they get copyrights and patents. If you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop a product, should I be permitted to copy it so that I can "learn and earn" at your expense? It is wrong to steal the work that others have paid for, regardless of the purity of one's motives, and regardless of whatever wrong that you think that their country has done to you. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: U.S.S. Arizona, "as is" The National Park Service has an excellent model display showing the U.S.S. Arizona as she now rests on the bottom. The glass is tinted, such that the effect is very realistic. Has any SMML reader ever tried this? It must take a lot of research to determine how she looks at the present time, but it would be a great project. Perhaps NPS could help. Think about it. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Countries and politics Oh dear, we seem to be heading for flame war territory here. Bearing in mind that this is the SMML, I wonder whether it would be unreasonable if we restricted our comments about manufacturers and publishers to issues relating to their modelling and research value? Like most people on this list, I have my own views about which countries political systems I favour and which I do not. In the latter case, I therefore have to make a judgement call as to whether the quality of their products is sufficient for me to set aside my views and make a purchase. If I know that a model or a book is a "knock off" based, without acknowledgement, on someone else's original work, then personally I am inclined to steer clear. However, in my opinion (for what it is worth), that is not the same as boycotting the products of an entire country just because I happen to object to its political system. I am sure none of you wants to hear my political views, at least not in this forum, so I will not inflict them on you, but I hope that everyone will be content to let me hold them. Similarly, I care not what views any of the rest of the SMMLies hold, as you are just as entitled as I am to hold them. I am aware that there are certain countries in which this freedom is not available (or at least when it comes to expressing them) but I also recall reading recently that there is a country in which at least one regional government makes it illegal to teach the theory of evolution. Does this make me decline to do business with anyone there? Well that is for me to decide, and you if it concerns you. However, if the work they produce is poor, I venture to suggest that it is in everyone's interests to boycott them, as the free market forces will eventually force them to improve or to cease trading. I really do not want to get into the stone chucking business, as most of us have a few windows which are vulnerable, so I try to stay out of these rather pointless exchanges. However, some peacekeeping seems to be desirable before the trebuchets are warmed up. Happy ranting Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Richard Scott Subject: Dragon 1/700 kit of RAN DDG Can anyone on the list shed light as to availability of Dragon 1/700 scale Charles F Adams kit in guise as recently departed Royal Australian Navy DDGs Perth, Hobart and Brisbane? I saw the HMAS Perth kit in Sydney a couple of years back, but was unable to find one when I passed through last month. As an aside, does said kit contain all the right parts (Ikara and associated mods) to produce a bona fida RAN DDG, and if so, is that sprue included in any other Charles F Adams releases (such as Dragon’s USS Cochrane kit)? As an alternative, how much kit bashing would it take to convert the German Rommel to RAN DDG configuration? Thanks! Rich Scott -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "john fiebke" Subject: Trumpeter How long did we all discuss the ICM Hood that will "definitely" be released in 2001? How many people who didn't know better got ripped off by the GIANT (well, box at least) Revell 1/400 Enterprise? Trumpeter has been doing more than building Arizonas. A 1/32 A-10 was to many aircraft builders the equivelant of our plastic 1/350 Hood. And they actually did it, as well as countless other kits that no western plastic manufacturer would touch because marketing research said that another P-51 would make more money. I've had my life's fill of reissued 1950's kits from Revell. I don't want another Zero. And I'll believe the ICM Hood and Takao when I see them. Trumpeter is taking an initiative and running with it, and if companies like Revell don't wake up and improve their product like Trumpeter has done in an amazingly short time, they will find themselves out of business. I find it truly ironic that it takes a Chinese company to take advantage of capitalism in this industry. We americans find out far too often these days how our arrogance towards the "inability" of foreigners can turn around and bite us in the a--. Sorry for the politics, but I REALLY want a 1/350 Essex and Hornet in plastic, and Trumpeter is our best shot. john f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Chinese Companies Gee! I did it again! Help me to remind never to ask a question about chinese companies/kits ever, ever again! ;-) Anyway thanks for the help, will wait a bit longer and get the Tamiya POW or KGV in time! (Hey, got the Yamato at a half price sale, maybe will have some luck again sometime :-) Erwin Calling from a damn wet Belgium! if this weather persist I will definitevely need a couple of real size boats! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: HP-Models Releases Folks, Following up on some of the brief exchanges on Royal Navy warships by HP-Model what are people's impressions of their models especially of the larger vessels? I do have some of their RN corvettes and destroyers. The casting is very good, but they are fairly simplistic and they require scratchbuilding. The kits do not include PE but that's not a big deal as WEM's line covers pretty much everything. I just noticed that their latest RN WWII listings includes a number of British carriers (Eagle, Hermes, Courageous, Glorious, etc.) and some of the 'D' class cruisers. This is great news if it is for real. Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: discussion time again..hypothetical Time to get the ball rolling on people's thoughts.This I hope should get a few responses. (sorry Shane to increase your inward email work load,lol).. Say you had the choice of going back in time (only as an observer) & could go on any ship in time..what ship & why??? & I don't think for you ex navy sailors no going back on your old ship to watch yourself getting chewed out by the XO or sergent at arms etc for that party you had while at shore leave! lol 2 that spring to mind for me would the Titantic.corny I know, but would be interesting to really know what happened that night.... Maybe HMS HOOD against the Bismarck again to find out where the shell hit & if it was from the Bismarck & one that just sprung to mind..HMAS Sydney & Kormoran again to settle what realy happened regards Andrew Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Shipguy59@aol.com Subject: Airbrushing acrylics I always seem to have trouble getting good coverage with acrylics....I'd prefer to use them but the whites or reds never seem to cover well and I end up using enamals. any suggestions? mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Last word on the "Chinese thing" My comments about Trumpeter were not about the kits themselves, but about their business practices. By that, I mean the occurrence of the Banner kit of the Arizona. The kit was made by Trumpeter, but marketed under the one time name of Banner to get around the exclusive distribution right of the Trumpeter importer, Steven's International Dist. Marco Polo Importers brought the Banner AZ kit into the USA, not Steven's. That is not honest, plain and simple. I never tried to get a boycott against them, or ever said anything to that matter. As far as Trumpeter, Banner, or Mini Hobby using another kit as a guide, that is perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not an exact copy. By exact, I do mean exact. I for one am happy to see this company doing 1/350 kits. This creates competition. Competition creates better products. That is good for all of us. I am even going to target their kits with my own publishing schedule. An Essex book is going to be done this winter. To those who wish to say the things that were said about me, get your facts straight! Both of the comments about what I said were incorrect and will only serve to make yourselves look bad. If you were to met me in person you would know that I dont mince words. What I say is what I mean. I am very direct. I am never politically correct. That is for those who cant handle the truth. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Chinese Companies >> In your more recent posts you have accused Chinese not of stealing US technology only to add in parentheses that Clinton actually did have give it to them. So what was it exactly -theft or trade??? << Actually I said that part, more of a political jab at Bill Clinton than a criticism of the Chinese. The PRC got the best return they could have ever hoped for. It is hard to steal something when technology transfer policies get taken away from the oversight of the Defense and State Depts only to have it go through the Commerce Dept. so it can be given "legally" to them. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "sell4853" Subject: HMS BELFAST & Pool of London SMMLer's Just in case some modellers are not aware there is a live site web camera located on HMS BELFAST currently moored on the River Thames in the Pool of London. There are several camera views on this 24 hrs webcam that take in the river and ships that enter the Pool under Tower Bridge. This may be of interest to modellers in respect of the various Naval ships that pay courtesy visits to London and often moor alongside the Belfast. The site gives details of various visiting vessels and times that Tower Bridge is raised. Have a look at the site it may well be of help if not you may find it of interest, (especially those "expats" amongst you !)............ Have a look at these and you will see......... http://www.livesights.com/VideoPages/live.htm http://www.iwm.org.uk/belfast/index.htm From wet and windy UK Well done Canada & Scotland (at Salt Lake City) & God less America Norman Sells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Kerry Jang Subject: Chinese Companies I have learned through a friend in China, and heard the same story here in Canada that the Chinese Government actually closed down "Zhengedfu" for copying kits. They have been under a lot of pressure to stop the rip offs and copies, and they have responded by closing down the companies that copy everything from CD's, DVD's, etc, etc. I see the Chinese papers and there have been many crackdowns on all sorts of corruption. They have a long way to go, but there *is* change happening. We should be glad that the Chinese are taking the risk and producing new kits. Their policy is with economic change first, then political change (not the way the Russian tried to do it). The move to a more open, free market economy is a big deal for them. As China is now a member of the WTO, they will behave more appropriatly. Its a win-win situation for all of us. Instead of isolating them help them. It was Mao Zedong (see the many biographies) who always wanted better relationships with the West originally, especially the USA. However, the USA acted xenophobically and they had no choice but to turn to the Soviet Union. We get nice new kits, ones that are getting better with each issue, and the world gets stability in an area where we all need it for our kids. Cheers, Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume