Subject: SMML VOL 1633 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:59:54 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Worse movie 2: Paint Compatibility 3: movie goof ups 4: Re: Movie Wish 5: nautical movies 6: Movies 7: Re: movie bloopers 8: Re: submarine in Wisconsin 9: Re: Movie boo boo 10: Me262 rebuild project 11: Hold and Fold tool 12: Interesting items on eBay 13: St Nazaire film 14: Comments on B-Resina HMS Vanguard Kit 15: U-boat PORTHOLE 16: Re: Movie boo boo 17: Re: U571 18: sea movies that should be made 19: Schnellboot Type 38 20: Camo color information for PGM's 21: Phillie navy yard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: Worse movie My vote for worse movie of all time Thin Red Line, after ten minutes I was hoping the Japanese would sink the transport. Michael Zimmerman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Jtennier@aol.com Subject: Paint Compatibility A question for the painters. I'm reworking one of my model hulls. I made it out of lifts in pine, sealed and painted, using automotive lacquer based paints. To paint the hull bottom, I used the Tamiya Hull Red. I've sanded most of this off while reworking the hull and have to start again with primer. How compatible would the Tamiya paint be with a lacquer based paint (overtop)? It's plenty dry, it was painted a few years ago, and as I said, 99% gone, just a few places where some red still shows. Thanks in advance! John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: O'Connor Subject: movie goof ups One question form an avowed non-movie goer- Why, in this day and age, do they not use a combination of models and CG for the proper effect??? They do it in Sci-fi all the time- Star Wars effects were models mostly, IIRC- all the Tie Fighters and X wings- models and effects. How difficult would it be to do the large-scale models, even if generics for period-specific ships, and compliment with CG??? I recall PATTON- my all-time favorite war flick- with M-47's from the Spanish Army in about '75, or whenever it was filmed, standing in for German Panzers. I was at RAF LAkenheath in '67 when Battle of Britain was filmed over East Anglia- Spits and Messer's all over the sky-real ones!!!! Cool stuff, with a dayglo orange B-25 camera bird in the middle of it all. Have not seen the PH movie you all squak about- All I can say is, I don't really want to see Sprucans in place of Battleship row. Never saw T*****c either- never wanted to see that skinny kid on the bow of the greatest liner in history. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: Re: Movie Wish I've often wondered why no movie has ever been made about the sinking of the four-piper USS Pope and the role of its exec Richard N. Antrim as a POW. Talk about a real American hero. http://www.arlingtoncemetery.com/rantrim.htm Antrim was born on 17 December 1907 in Peru, Indiana. In June, 1926, he enlisted in the Naval Reserve. He accepted an appointment to the Naval Academy in 1927 and was commissioned an Ensign upon graduation in 1931. He was designated a Naval Aviator in September, 1940. He was awarded the Navy Cross for Heroism as Executive Officer of the destroyer POPE (DD-225) in the Battle of Makassar Strait (27 January 1942), the Battle of Badoeng Strait (19-20 February 1942) and the Battle of Java Sea (27 February - 1 March 1942). He was one of 151 survivors of POPE taken prisoner after the destroyer was sunk during the Battle of the Java Sea. Antrim received the Congressional Medal of Honor and Bronze Star for heroic actions while in a Japanese POW camp. In the first instance, in April, 1942, he interceded on behalf of a junior officer who was being beaten by a frenzied Japanese guard and was close to death. Failing to dissuade the guard, he offered to take the punishment himself. The Japanese were so startled by this action that no further punishment was given and life at the prison, which had been worsening, began to improve. In July, 1945, Antrim was in charge of a labor party which was tasked with constructing bomb protection trenches. He caused the trenches to be constructed in such a manner that Allied aerial photography revealed the nature of the trenches and whom they protected. Kevin W. Woodruff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: nautical movies Battle of Samar, Guadalcanal campaign, St. Nazaire, and from the W.W.I the raid on the Belgian port of Zebbrugge (I think I remembered how to spell it),Jutland with CGI they are all possible with a great deal of accuracy. Michael Zimmerman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Movies I wish they had attempted a film on "Red Storm Rising" when the Tom Clancy book first came out. Would have cost a bomb to make it authentic looking! Even the "Battle of Jutland" would be a masterpiece in history making. I guess you might have to have a love story entwined into that between a German girl and a British sailoror the rivalry between Churchill and his admirals of the time! Graeme Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: movie bloopers I still think one of the worst movies, and I cannot really call it a blooper, nor can I remember the name but it is the famous movie of John Wayne as a sub Captain and this aviator gets shot down (who just happens to be his girlfriends brother or something) and I forget the reason for why they had to get him out of the water so fast, probably Zero shooting at him or something. Anyway Wayne jumps down from the bridge to the forward 40mm platform to the main deck and then into the water to save the aviator!!! The Captain leaves his boat (yes a sub is a boat) to save some pilot - I DON'T THINK SO! Like to see the Board of Inquiry report on that one!! Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE - Naval & Aviation Artist -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Re: submarine in Wisconsin There is a submarine in Manitowac. I am not sure of the type. Bill Veigele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Movie boo boo First, to Rod Dauteuil, I believe that Lady Liberty is positioned to face incoming maritime traffic, as she is shown in the movie. Therefore if the negative were to be reversed, she would still be facing the immigrant's vessel. True, the wrong hand would be holding the torch, but if in sufficient shadow, that fact may not be discernable. Electronic alteration could make such shadowing happen. Second, could any script writer top the reality that we are now experiencing? September 11, Terrorism, the Middle East debacle, corporate dishonesty, lack of personal and public integrity, distrust of the FBI, scandals in the Catholic Church, etc., etc. The old saying is still valid, "Truth is stranger than fiction", but I can't decide which is the "egg" and which is the "chicken", or which is the "Cause" and which is the "Effect". Working on ship models looks better every day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Me262 rebuild project The chap who is scratchbuilding flying Me262 replicas is called Herbert Tischler of the Texas Airplane Factory. The proposal was originally made by Stephen Snyder (I can see why John would forget such a name;o)), who negotiated the release of the Willow Grove aircraft. The reason he had to do this was that we (the British, not my family) managed to burn the original Me262 construction drawings at Duxford in 1949 (obviously before it became part of the Imperial War Museum!). They decided to fit the proven J85-CJ-610 engine in preference to the rather temperamental original Jumos as the excitement value of wondering if the thing will cut out in mid air every few hours was considered as undesirable for potential buyers, although they will fit inside the original Jumo structure so will look the same when the cowling is opened. The J85 also weighs only 400lbs as against the Jumo 004's 2,000lbs. The first flight was due to be in February 1997 but I have no information on how the project is going. The above came from Hugh Morgans book "Me262 - Stormbird rising", which I bought during a fit of inspiration to not build planes as well as not building tanks and ships&. Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Hold and Fold tool Hi Steve I have one of these, picked up at the IPMS Nationals last year, and it is a useful gadget. You can see reviews of it at the manufacturer'ss website (see text below) but I found the following (edited highlights are here - the original is longer) review on http://www.missing-lynx.com/ (go to the reviews section and try to ignore all the tankie stuff - it only rots your brain). I have not tried using it for any ship p/e yet but it or something like it is essential for those parts with long fold lines which distort if you try to do the job with the old "two rulers" trick (at least they did when I did it&). Here is the review, by Stephen Sewell: >> The Small Shop "Hold and Fold" with "Hold and Fold" Extra Reach Bar; prices, basic "Hold and Fold" $39.95, Extra Reach Bar $19.00 ($54.95 if purchased together) Advantages: great tool for folding etched metal or even plastic; precision milling makes for accurate work and good support Disadvantages: Apparent high price (see text) Rating: Highly Recommended Recommendation: for all modellers who use etched metal parts to detail their models, or who make their own parts from etched metals. The "Hold and Fold" consists of a 4" x 3" milled aluminium plate with a spring-loaded toolhead that screws down onto two guide pins, and an industrial style sliding knife single edged razor blade for use as a bending tool. It also includes a useful sheet of instructions and suggested uses. The plate has felt feet, a countersunk screw hole for permanent mounting, and has a micro-grain milled surface similar to an old 33 rpm record which provides some "grip" for objects on the work surface. The toolhead, also milled, has a single wide face with a 45 degree bevelled edge and a second face with insets leaving small "teeth" 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" wide plus the ends. The "Extra Reach" toohead provides another set of options, with one 4" wide 45 degree bevelled face, and a 3/16" and 1/4" "teeth" but with roughly 3/4" of depth behind them for larger surfaces to be worked. All of the parts, less the spring, guide pins, and knob on the tool itself, are milled from solid aluminium billets. The milling is the reason this tool seems so expensive is because it is milled, not formed out of extruded parts as some other tools have been in the past. All parts are precision machined, and the angles and bevels are sharp and precise. This beastie has some heft as well, as these are not soda-can quality aluminium billets. (The bottom of the parts indicates it is called Kaiser ASTM-8-221 aluminium, but I am not a metallurgist and have no clue what that means in English!) The tool head fits flush and can be screwed down tight to hold work in progress. Thanks to the wide number of options available, it can be used to bend just about any type of etched metal part one can imagine, and keeps tiny bits from flying off to their doom at the hands of a vacuum cleaner weeks from now. I recently did up an M3A3 which used tiny brackets for the skirts, which were obvious if the skirts were not installed. These were a royal pain to bend and not lose, and I for one wish I had known about this beastie BEFORE I did the M3A3! Overall, this is a great little tool. I had been using a sort of "origami" tool from Airwaves to fold brass, but it was expensive (£5 for what looks like a glorified tweezer) and tended to slip and let the parts fold at an angle. This beastie solves the problem, and while to Mark's dismay I still may not become a true believer, I will definitely use more etched parts now that I can hold them and fold them right! Thanks to Pete Forrest of The Small Shop for the review sample. The Small Shop can be reached at http://www./thesmallshop.com, e-mail smallshop@ipns.com. Their "snail" address is PO Box 2701, Battle Ground, Washington, 98604, telephone (360) 887-8367. << Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting items on eBay I saw these items for sale at eBay Convoy by Paul Kemp (WW2 Arctic Convoy's ) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527752272 NATO Navies of the 1980s http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527755242 HOOD AND BISMARCK - SHIPWRECKS. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527195952 The K Boats. Disastrous Steam Submarines. Pb http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527835061 Historic Ship Models by Wolfram zu Mondfeld http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527845204 Morison TWO OCEAN WAR WW2 WWII US Navy naval http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1528856663 Book How to Abandon Ship 1942 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1528772891 ChapWoman's Guide to Shemanship - Book http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1527627133 Maritime Female Pirates Sea Hags Ship History http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1528878353 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: St Nazaire film The British production was called "The Gift Horse". I wondered about how Indy survived that submarine voyage as well. Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Comments on B-Resina HMS Vanguard Kit I forwarded Pavel Vacata's comments to WSW who are distributing the B-Resina line. They told me that they were not very happy with this kit, although they do not agree with Pavel Vacata in all respects, neither do I. In my opinion the shape of the fore part of the hull is not perfect, but it is acceptable. Also the secondary turrets don't "look" oversized. The main reason for the lower quality of this kit (as compared with the other B-Resina kits) may be that the master pattern was not made by those who usually work for B-Resina, and it is highly questionable if this one will ever work for them again. Also, B-Resina will try to correct some of the drawbacks with future releases of this kit, in particular the gun turrets. They will also see what they can do for the anchor resets. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Steve Cowardin Subject: U-boat PORTHOLE Aargh, Matees! Stand in line to bid on this one and be NICE to one another! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1090514296 they are saving the screen door for the feeding frenzy. Alright now, that's your chuckle for the day, now GIT back to work on those ship models and be NICE to your wives. Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "melee" Subject: Re: Movie boo boo Indaina Jones survived because the uboat didn't go down deep, probably:))) somone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't U-boats usally cruise on the surface? If that idea is nixed, perhaps he grew gills like in the movie waterworld. :))) Lee Shackelford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "melee" Subject: Re: U571 Regarding enigma, actually it was the Poles who got it for the British, if my history is correct. Could someone tell me if they also got one during the attempted assination of Rommell in Africa? Lee Shackelford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "rt.rogers" Subject: sea movies that should be made Ever since reading Alistair Maclean's book "H.M.S. ULYSSES" I have wanted to see it transferred to the screen. In my humble opinion it rates alongside the finest of sea/war stories comparable in fact with that other great epic Monsarrat's "The Cruel Sea". I doubt if many of the "nautical buffs" reading these pages has NOT read this tremendous story of a ship on "Russian convoy" duty during WWII, but if you haven't - Do yourself a favour and have a good read!! I await with interest to read your comments!! Ransford " Taff" Rogers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Dengar" Subject: Schnellboot Type 38 http://www.andressen-home.de/Schiffmodell/Schnellboot_Typ_38/schnellboot_typ_38.htm Great site 33 pictures, just takes a little time to load. Gary McGee (New Zealand) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Camo color information for PGM's >> Does anyone know what these colors for this camo pattern are in this photo. http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/121101202.jpg << It appears to be in MS 32L schemes which consisted of : Vertical Surfaces: Dull Black Ocean Green Haze Green Horizontal Surfaces: Deck Green >> I'm getting ready to paint the hull and want to get a good color match. I already have all the U.S. navy colors offered by WEM I just don't know which ones to use. << The Greens by WEM have not been released yet. I know they are coming soon though. John Sheridan "O Lord bless this thy hand grenade that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." (Armaments Chapter Two Verses Nine to Twenty One) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Phillie navy yard Hi Guys I recently drove by the Phillie Navy Yard at the entrance to the mothball fleet where 4 ships were parked. This is where they go before being disposed of. It has the Des Moines CA-134, The Kidd DDG-993, and 1 Spruance class DD with 1 Farragut class DDG with no hull numbers. Where are the Des Moines and Kidd going? The bow 5 inch gun was gone on the Farragut and the Spruance had the barrells cut off her guns. Any one heard which they are? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume