Subject: SMML VOL 1809 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:12:53 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS MIDWAY 2: Re: Ensigns 3: Re: Ensigns 4: Re: Turrets 5: ensigns 6: Re: Pearl Harbor Charts 7: Re: Midway 8: British Standard Ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Interesting item on eBay UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: USS MIDWAY Very good all thanks for the info and very in-depth Mike P. When I read things like that I am very thankful for serving on the "Hawk" as she was a very stable platform in almost any kind of weather - and I am an expert on sea sickness. For me it was just if you happen to combine rough weather with an extreme hangover that I got into problems. And as you all know we used to go to G.Q after leaving port and my station was on the foc'sle - talk about elevator rides - try it in a typhoon!! Anyway, thanks all and Mike we lost a couple of aircraft in bad weather too or extreme turns. Best accident was a with an F-4 colliding with a 50 foot launch - ya see 3rd division (mine) was helping 5th division move the boats and we took a roll and it sort of got away from us in the hanger bay. No damage to the boat of course. Just sort of strange when I had to write up the report for the First Lieutenant and describe what the boat did to the F-4 - CRUNCH ! Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Ensigns >> The Royal Navy has white, red and blue ensigns. What do these signify? (The blue seems to be auxiliaries, but what do I know?) Second, IIRC, the white is a white flag with a red cross with the Union Jack in the upper, staff-side quadrant. What are the colors of the crosses on the red and blue. << The white ensign is worn by her Majesty's ships of war in commission, the Royal Yacht Squadron, and Trinity House vessels when escorting Royal Yachts. The blue ensign is worn by other than ships of war in Admiralty service, ships commanded by officers of the Royal Navy on the retired list, or by officers of the royal Naval Reserve and, with badges, by vessels belonging to public office. [TITANIC, for example, wore a blue ensign since her Captain was either ex RN or in the RNR]. The red ensign is worn by all other British vessels. [Source for above: Manual of Seamanship 1937] The Union Jack is in the upper staff side quadrant of all three flags. It consists of the red St. Georges Cross (for England) superimposed on the red diagonal St. Patricks cross (Ireland) and together superimposed on the diagonal St. Andrews cross (white on a blue background) for Scotland. Coincidentally the St. Andrews Cross was also the Russian Naval ensign during the Czarist era. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Ensigns IIRC, in the era covered by the Hornblower novels the Royal Navy's seagoing fleet [not the shore establishment] was divided for administrative purposes into 3 Squadrons; Red, White, and Blue. One's flag rank was attached to a Squadron. Therefore, one would have the rank formally referred to as "Rear Admiral of the Red" or "Vice Admiral of the Blue", etc. Pre-1653, in theory, but not practice by that time, the senior Squadron was the Red, which would be in the center of the fleet if it was combined in battle. Next came the Blue, which was the vanguard ahead of the Red in the combined battle line. The White Squadron was junior and would be in the rear of the combined fleet.. Post 1653, the order of seniority was changed to Red, White, and Blue. There were 3 admirals in each Squadron, for a total of 9 in the Fleet. Flag officers of each Squadron flew their personal flag as follows. Admiral-from the mainmast, Vice Admiral-from the foretop, Rear Admiral-from the mizzen. The various Ensigns, designated the Squadrons until 1864 when it was decreed that all vessels would wear the White Ensign. The Red Ensign became the National [Royal Fleet Auxiliaries] and Merchant Navy flag, The Blue is used to indicate Royal Naval Reserve. I think that any merchant vessel whose captain and 7 other crew members are members of the RNR may fly the Blue Ensign. There are no crosses on the fields of the Red and Blue Ensigns, but they are the color indicated, with the Union Jack in the canton. The above is liable to correction by any of Her Majesty's subjects on the list, but I think I have it pretty much right. Hope this helps, Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: Re: Turrets Be that as it may in the Empire. "Turrets are found only on armored ships such as battleships and cruisers. They consist of a heavily armored box topside containing up to four main battery guns and a structure extending downward through the decks ... The entire structure rotates within a heavily armored cylinder called a barbette, ... Gun houses are also revolving, box shaped structures. ... Though they frequently look like turrets, they are not heavily armored and their handling rooms are not protected by barbettes. ..." Blue Jackets Manual, Twelth Edition--1944 Maybe the RN didn't differentiate, but the USN sure did. So I guess British destroyers have turrets and US destroyers have gun houses. Roy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: ensigns re question about British Ensigns Present day, Royal Navy commisioned ships use the White Ensign. Merchant Navy ships use the Red Ensign. The Blue Ensign is worn by ships which have a certain percentage of officers that are in the RNR (reserve), which is why Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships generally fly the Blue Ensign. The Union Flag is the same, no matter what Ensign. Previously (age of sail), the red, white and blue style of ensign was used as indication of the seniority of the commanding Admiral, ie Admiral of the Blue etc (before introduction of rear-, vice-admiral?). Dave Ward ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Charts Hi; These charts sound like they would be of more interest to wargamers than to modelers. If you don't mind I am copying them to a few wargame lists. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister eGroups : WoodenWalls Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Midway I spoke to an old gentleman that served on the Midway when she was still an axial deck ship. He spoke of the experimental V-2 launchings at that time....( Idea for a dio....) He said Midway also had a severe machinery vibration at revs for 27 kts. He claimed it was so bad that it was difficult to even stand on the deck! Has anybody heard of this? Dave Judy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Dean, Tom" Subject: British Standard Ships Hi Gang: A fellow modeler asked if I could get some information for him. He is looking for plans for SS BIELA, a "British Standard Ship" Bravo built in 1919 and sunk in convoy 1942. He lost a relative aboard and wants to build her. Is there a set of plans available for modeling for any of this class. I have already passed info to him about "British Standard Ships of WWI" by Mitchell & Sawyer and he is trying to obtain a copy. Thanks Tom Dean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: trevor.titcomb@ntlworld.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay UK I saw this item for sale at eBay UK Title of item: The Russo-Japanese war, 5 vols Seller: bigtitters Starts: 07-Jul-02 21:10:22 BST Ends: 17-Jul-02 21:10:22 BST Price: Currently £47.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1548421066 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume