Subject: SMML VOL 1849 Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 01:27:07 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Size of WWII US Naval flags 2: Re: Getting Kids Involved 3: Are Tamiya Mogami and Hasegawa Hyuga "New version" from new molds or rereleases? 4: Lucky Prince Of Wales 5: German WW II deck colors and camouflage in general 6: Prinz Eugen 7: Re: Why ask Why 8: Re: Warship Books -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: German WWII deck colors and camoflague colors in general ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Doug Wilde Subject: Size of WWII US Naval flags While transcribing the Equipment List Part I (HULL) for the USS Sable I came across Sheet No. 2, National Civil Personal Ensigns and Flags. They list flag size by number. I've searched a bit online and did not find a key. So, what are the dimensions of... Size #7, #10, #11 ensigns Size #6 Commission Pennants (they had 12 aboard, three times as many as any other type flag) TIA Doug Wilde ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Re: Getting Kids Involved David Millers point of interest on SMML 1847 regarding instruction sheets and fantasty particularly ran a flag up my yardarm. This is, [in my humble opinion] a powerful, overlooked and easily remedied part of the puzzle in encouragimg new and younger modellers, Way back in days of yore, Airfix, I remember. printed fairly comprehensive instruction sheets, i.e. "detach the two halves of the signal deck,55 & 56. and attach the compass platform, 57, ensuring that the projection faces aft" or "Locate the HA 4in AA guns 20 & 21 in the holes provided on the boat deck" etc etc That was the only way that you knew where the compass platform was or what a *!#%/' 4 inch gun looked like. The information stuck and meant something when you went to see "Sink the Bismark" or "Battle of the River Plate". Ship and aircraft histories can be very informative and constructive when expanded from a mere few sentences to a few paragraphs. WEM in particular I would like to metion as getting A1+ in both divisions, But the big guys are the ones, so all you production and marketing types from Airfix, Revel and Tamiya et al who I'm sure are avid subscribers to this list, please take note. I personally deplore the multilingual legislative leg irons clamped on everything that's sold anywhere these days. There must be a better way, Not to mention the massive insurance liability risk incurred with instruction sheets................ Gotta go now DW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Are Tamiya Mogami and Hasegawa Hyuga "New version" from new molds or rereleases? Have you seen them, are they worth wile buying or not? Comments appreciated, Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Lucky Prince Of Wales Whilst few in their sober moments could call the late POW a lucky ship, Consider the following. It seems the chaplain must have said something right on the previous Sunday's Morning divisions. During the brief action with Bismark 24/5/41 POW was hit by seven 15 in & 8 in. shells within a 12 minute period. A large calibre shell passed diagonally through the compass platform without exploding, killing or wounding all present, excepting Capt. Leach and signals CPO B A large calibre shell passed through the anti aircraft director without exploding. C Large shell struck the after funnel with only fuse cap popping. D Large calibre 15 in shell, falling short, penetrated the ships side below the armour belt, Came to rest in wing compartment adjacent to boiler room , Failed to explode. "{'ere Nobby, Joo 'ear that, Wot was that noise then?'}" E Three 8 inch shell hits, one traversed through after superstructure, came to rest on upper deck and was later thrown overboard[ Would that be some trophy today, or what] Two other 8 in shell hits, only partially exploding with little damage in area of armoured deck aft. POW gained three 14 in hits on Bismark causing sufficient damage to later pursuade Lutjens to head for France for repairs. By this time both A and Y quad turrets were inoperable, B turret [twin] alone remained. She withdrew under smoke at best speed, a mechanical cripple. Had Bismark so chosen a few moments would have sufficed to finish her off. However POW remained in pursuit with 'Norfolk' and 'Suffolk' until relieved and ordered home, Capt Leach remained in command but unfortunately was not amongst those rescued in the action off Malaya in December of the same year. This must be an outstanding example of 'My lucky Day' Does anyone else have any examples of lucky ships. Or lucky models of ships! DW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: German WW II deck colors and camouflage in general >> I thought to add, if anyone knows anything about what the actual paint colors were, ie RAL numbers or even a match to a model paint color, for particular ships or periods that would be almost all i'd need to know. I plan on making a little fleet over time, so thanks for any help. << Arthur I'd suggest you get yourself the Short&Snyder paintchip sets for the Kriegsmarine. I guess they are represnting the best knowledge at the time on this subject. As for destroyers decks, I agree that there was no wooden planking on the fo'c'sel deck and the main deck. Superstructure decks may have been covered with linoleum, and bridge decks were mostly layed with wooden gratings. Hope this helps a bit Falk Pletscher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: Prinz Eugen The Prinz Eugen could be looked at as a lucky ship, but as a warship she was hardly cost effective! The most useful period of her life was supporting the retreating German Army in the Baltic. During the war she spent most time anchored, or in dock under repair - mine, bomb, torpedo damage and especially cranky machinery, and her poor range really limited her usefulness for commerce raiding. I believe that pre 1939, it was being planned to sell her to the Russians, as it was realised by the German navy that she did not really fit in with the surface navy plans. It's a curious feature that the German surface ships were in general poorly designed, and in most areas old fashioned, given the general excellence of German Engineering Dave Ward ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Daniel Bauer" Subject: Re: Why ask Why Hello Pwesty; The Prinz Eugen was considered "lucky" at the very start of it's career. Remember it returned on the ill-fated Rheinubung and Bismarck did not. Also the fact that the P.E. was having engine or boiler troubles kept it in port most of the time. When P.E. did go out a British sub almost sunk it. Only damaging the stern area to the point of having to rig a system of rudders to manually navigate the ship. Also when P.E. rammed the Lepzig. The Atlantic Bow had to to have major repairs. There is also the fact that the P.E. was the only German Capital ship to survive the war. Then the ship was surendered to the British which in turn gave it to the Americans who put it through not one but two atomic tests. Only then survived all of this, P.E. was towed to an atoll off the Marshall Islands and finally capsized upside down. I have dived on the wreck. It is only 100 feet down. The ship is supported by it's crushed superstructure. Regards, Dan Bauer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Darshan Ward" Subject: Re: Warship Books I sorely miss the temporary I hope abscence of Keith Butterley and books, Is there any news of developments in this area or of any alternte source of his particular and specialised area of expertise? Best Wishes...DW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: German WWII deck colors and camoflague colors in general >> I was referred to this page, I was wondering if anyone knew an online links or pages that cover German camoflague schemes in WWII, particularily Destroyers and Torpedo Boats as I am working on models of each at the time. I have found many picture, most being in black and white of course and not too high quality. The instructions tell you the decks were wooden, but I am almost positive they are steel, and the upper decks call for a dark brown color, but I am pretty sure they were dark grey. In particular I was wondering what color grey it might be, darker than the dark grey commonly seen on splinter paterns or lighter? And as I plan to do larger ships that do have wooden decks, just what color a wooden deck would appear? I've seen models that go from yellow to orange to beige to grey in appearance... I thought to add, if anyone knows anything about what the actual paint colors were, ie RAL numbers or even a match to a model paint color, for particular ships or periods that would be almost all i'd need to know. I plan on making a little fleet over time, so thanks for any help. << Hi Arthur, We stock the book "DIE ANSTRICHE UND TARNANSTRICHE DER KRIEGSMARINE" Colours and Camouflage of the Kriegsmarine, Jung, Abendroth,Kelling,170pp 200+ photos, colour and black and white illustrations/plans, Hardback with English captions, £28.95. In addition, we have 12 Kriegsmarine colours in our Colourcoats line of enamel paints. We also have "DIE DEUTSCHEN ZERSTORER 1935-1945", The German Destroyers 1935-45, Koop and Schmolke, 272pp, 225 photos, 127 drawings etc h/b, £36.95, and a copy of M.J. Whitley's out-of-print book, "German Destroyers of WW2", hardback, dustjacket, 223pp, 99 photos, etc. priced at £50.00 (take 20% off this price). Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume