Subject: SMML VOL 1878 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 13:35:35 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ship weathering and rust 2: Re: Weathering 3: Converting modern New Jersey to Missouri 4: Re: K subs 5: The Joys of Rust 6: Strange submarines 7: Re: Weathering 8: Soviet Poti Class (Fast Attack Craft) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Radar photo etch ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ed Grune Subject: Ship weathering and rust To expand on what Rusty posted about ship weathering ... One of the finest armor modelers in the North Texas Chapter of IPMS did a couple of four-pipe destroyers for our award-winning group entry on the Centennial of US Destroyers at this years Nats. If you were at the awards, you may have heard James Sharp's name called numerous times in the armor categories. James woke me up early one Saturday morning asking if I had any more ship kits he could paint and weather. He told me that its just like weathering a tank - except you leave off the mud. James wanted to try his hand (pun intended - if you know James, he only has one arm) at a larger ship model - and I convinced him to get an ISW Detroit light cruiser. It wasn't hard to do. He saw Dave Judy's model on the table - and he wanted one of his own. I'm sure that his model of the Detroit will be an equally beautiful job - and weathered appropriately. I've created a monster. Ed IPMS/NCT Destroyer Centennial Project Director Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Weathering Hoo-Boy!!! When I see what is required to do a credible job of weathering, as explained by the true artists and artisans among SMML, I'm glad that my models are of wooden-hulled vessels (coward that I am). Both are displayed ala dry-dock, and I thus get away with (I hope) the "new look" (remember that phrase from the 50s fashions?). On the "Charles W. Morgan" (a whaleship) I dodged weathering the copper hull cladding by suggesting that it had just been freshly clad (so there !!). Ambient atmospheric conditions have dulled it down a bit, but that's O.K., there's still no mistaking what it is, and copper and brass have a certain amount of natural appeal anyway. Fortunately, few purists get to see my opera anyway. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: KelDQ@aol.com Subject: Converting modern New Jersey to Missouri That's what I'm trying to do. Any experts out there know of any major differences between the two ships that would show up on the model? I'm pouring over my books and the net, but can't really notice anything with what I've found. Also, did the Missouri have the towed decoy system installed in the stern? Kelly Quirk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: K subs >> They could retract their funnels and be otherwise ready for diving in 30 seconds. They were armed initially with 10 - 18 in TT reduced to 8 when a pair of revolving mounts on the superstructure were found to be too exposed to operate in any sort of sea. They carried 1 - 3in gun and 1 - 76mm AA. After early experience they were fitted with modified bows, described as swan bows, which improved their seakeeping qualities. K 1 was lost in a collision in Nov 1917 and K 5 to an unknown cause in 1921. K 13 sank on trials in January 1917, was salved and renumbered K 22. << Actually they took far longer to ready to dive. In fact so long as to render emergency dives impossible. The stacks could be closed and sealed for dives, and the sub dive controls were NOT interlocked to the stack seals. The last K boat lost was lost when it dove with the stacks open!!! This was another Jackie Fisher spectacular failure They caused no damage to the enemy and much harm to the RN. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joel Labow Subject: The Joys of Rust Hi All, An experienced armor modeler once told me, "Visualize the point at which your weathering job will look absolutely perfect...and stop working an hour before you reach that point!" Just like camouflage, rust has appropriate uses and is inappropriate in other situations...and is easy to overdo. For example, in peacetime topside rust would almost never be seen on USN warships...the captain, first lieutenant and leading boatswain would have a collective stroke! Maybe just a hint of running rust from the scuppers down the ships sides after an extended underway period, but virtually nothing on the superstructure where the deck force could get at it even while underway...and the deck force would be over the side cleaning and painting as soon as the ship was back in port, even when the rest of the crew was on liberty. Lots of weathering, running rust and even patches of rusty bare metal are perfectly appropriate in wartime dioramas where the crews had other things on their minds than side cleaning...but are not correct in most peacetime settings. Merchant ships obviously have much smaller crews than combatants and get correspondingly more beaten up in appearance. Joel Labow CAPT USN (ret) A former first lieutanant who now gets hives at the sight of a paint roller! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael London" Subject: Strange submarines Further to my posting on Vol 1876 it would appear that the K Class diving time of 30 seconds was considerably off the mark. The original figure came from "Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921". Don Everitt in his book "K Boats, Steam-Powered Submarines in World War 1" has what is probably more realistic figure of a minimum of 3 minutes, 25 seconds. Considering that fires had to be shut down, funnels retracted and other openings and hatches closed, 30 seconds sounds like a very short time. It could possibly refer to the time taken to retract the funnels and not the total time required to prepare for diving. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: DHL Subject: Re: Weathering Ted0330@aol.com wrote: >> This same scale effect applies to ships. Even in 1:350, let alone 1:700, the ship is being seen as if it were thousands of feet away << Actually, isn't looking at a 1/350 model like looking at the real thing from only 350 feet away? I was boating this morning on the Kennebec River and passed by Bath Iron Works, going about seven or eight hundred feet off the beam of an Arleigh Burke Class destroyer. At that distance, "oil canning" and framing lines were clearly visible, along with what little rust and discoloration there was on the ship. Personally, I think if you like the way your models look weathered, then weather 'em. If you like 'em clean, then don't. Don ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "dengar" Subject: Soviet Poti Class (Fast Attack Craft) Can anyone let me have any images of these ships? I have tried all the usual sources but can't find photographs good enough for modelling.This class of ship was under series construction from 1961 to 1968. Any assistance would be very appreciated. Gary McGee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Radar photo etch >> Is there any companies that just make a PE sheet for radar, I would need both modern and W.W.II for 1/700. << I produce both in 1/700. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. 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