Subject: SMML VOL 2015 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:07:59 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Helena CL50 2: USCG WHITE 3: Re: Real wooden hulled W W 2 Sub Chaser 4: Is there a simple way of doing this 5: Re: Lafayette class sub 6: Re: Wooden decks and white paint 7: USS Texas web sigth 8: Re: CV-8 9: white paint 10: Re: Converting W W 1 sub chaser into a yacht 11: Re: 1;1 subchaser 12: Re: USCG White thanks for the advice everybody 13: Italian sub colors--I think you're wrong ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BlaserGMSail Subject: USS Helena CL50 To the research masters! I have a 1/96 model of the Helena from Lee Upshaw. I have a set of 2 blueprints and about 15 photos of various periods from Floating drydock, but seem to run into a wall when I try to find detail photos of her structure and radar (june 1942 refit) is the time period. Don Preul sent me some useful info on her plating and line drawings of her superstructure. Does anyone know where I can find mor helpfull information. Mike Blaser ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: USCG WHITE USCG White is the only color listed in the U.S. Coast Guard Coatings And Color Manual (CG-263) that does not show a GSA approved Federal Standard Number as a 595A color. (My copy dates to 1980-something). The white used by the United States Coast Guard is decidedly pure white. DO NOT add coloring! USCG White is normally neutral white, neither cold nor warm. The only USCG vessel I ever saw with a tint was the buoy tender USCGC Walnut (WLM-252) which came out of the yards in 1977 with a very pale Eggshell Blue nominally 'white' superstructure. I photographed the hell out of her because it had to be a mistake-or a new color scheme. Personnel in USCG Engineering at the Long Beach, CA district office almost fell out of their chairs when asked if this was a new scheme. A week later, she sported a shiny (glossy) white superstructure. Even though the blue tint was subtle, the change was dramatic. According to the manual, the following hulls are normally painted white on cutters: WTGB (early & WTGB-106 used for training), WAGB 1950s to about 1970, WHEC, WAGO, WIX, WMEC, WTR, WPB (including the new 87 footers) and most small boats such as utility boats and motor lifeboats (47' MLB painted white or bare aluminum, depending on time frame, most now left natural). Also painted white are the superstructure and all permanent attachments: pilot house, pilot house visor above the forward windows (this item may have its backside painted deck gray to reduce glare), deck houses, aircastles, breakwaters, cabins, engine trunks, gun tubs, gun shields, bridge wings and canvas dodgers attached to superstructure, bulwarks or bridge wings. Where the superstructure's sides extend to the outboard portion of the hull, it is painted white above the sheerline. Bulwarks, their supports and brackets are white (except bulwarks extending outboard-the outboard portion attached to and showing as part of the hull is painted the same color as the hull). Bulwark inboard sides at the bow facing the bridge may be painted flat black to cut glare on icebreakers. Use white on stanchions, lockers, ventilation ducts and numerous details secured to the superstructures including ladders (which show a black vertical band the width of the ladder painted on the superstructure directly behind the ladder). These listed items are white regardless of whether the hull itself is painted white, black or red. Of course, there are always variations such as white outboard amidship bulwarks on the red hull of USCGC Westwind circa 1976, Deck Blue/Gray (FS-16099) outward facing bridge visors seen on a few 82 footers or blue canvas bridge awnings, etc. Photos showing the cutter at the specific date modeled are always a must to be absolutely sure. If anyone else on this list has a current USCG Coatings And Color Manual, please post any additions or corrections. For other USCG colors and their FS Standard Numbers refer to one of my earlier postings in the SMML archives. Send pix of your model when it's done! Best Regards, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: Real wooden hulled W W 2 Sub Chaser >> Ooh! Now that would be an interesting subject... Are these dwgs still available from the original source? If not, how much effort ($) would it be to make copies? << The original drawings were in a USN sales bulliten that I own. The Navy was trying to unload a bunch of SCs and even a battleship and they produced this neat sales brochure that I came across. The cost for copies wouldn't be much. The problem is the effort. With 2 jobs and 5 kids I find that I often make promises that I can't keep. I already owe someone copies of a postcard I have of WWI SC converted to a fireboat and that's going on a couple of months now! However, Franklyn is free to copy the copies that he has of my original or I can again lend him the original to make more copies if he is willing to help out. I'll be in his area in a few weeks and my 7 year old son was just yesterday reminiscing about his ride in Franklyn's Ford's rumble seat, so perhaps he'd honor me with a visit again and I can pass on the plans. Jim P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: Is there a simple way of doing this Hey all First off I have been modeling for a good many years, I have always use the Amercan Mesuring system and scales, For me it has always been better to it that way, OK here is what I am now starting to see in some kits, Some kits says things and mesurments are in the Metric system That throws this old Rustbucket, So can any of you tell me an Easy why of how to Convert > I see there is a reissue of the old Revelle Lafayette Class Polaris sub (1/200 - I think?) Anyway if I were to throw all the guts away and seal up the foldaway hull - making a full hull model - how accurate is the hull and sail to just make it a desk top model. I am sure it could be detailed somewhat. << Tom Dougherty wrote: >> Actually, the externals are not quite what they should be either. The two piece rudder is wrong, the upper rudder needs to be extended, the sailplanes need to be reshaped and should be flush, and a number of other items that need correction. That being said, Ken Hart did an article a few years ago on correcting the Renwal subs (which is where Revell got the molds for the Lafayette). I'll dig it out of my files, scan it and send it to you. The interior is, of course, quite wrong. I have a couple of these Renwal sub hulls, and plan to try to make both the interior and exterior more accurate....someday...when I get time..... << While I usually defer to Mr. Dougherty on all submarine matters, (I usually e-mail him before I do any a sub project! ) I think that there's some confusion on his part between Revell and Renwal subs. Revell did buy up all of Renwal's old molds, but I don't think that they've ever reissued any of the Renwal SSBN kits. Revell has reissued its own SSBN kit (which I have never built) several times. Most of the accounts of the Revell SSBNs that I've read suggest that it is inferior to the Renwal kit. I do not know if the current reissue that Mike Donnegan mentioned is the old Revell mold, or the old Renwal mode. I hope it is the latter. Additionally, I believe that I have a copy of the Ken Hart article that Tom mentioned. In fact, I believe that Tom, nice guy that he is, sent it to me. Anyhow, this article was on a Renwal sub kit of the USS Thomas Jefferson, SSBN-618, Renwal kit # 653. Hart correctly pointed out numerous inconsistencies with the Laffayette class, but I think he missed a critical point: Renwal didn't make a "real" Laffayette class mold. They just put a set of "618" decals in a box with their Ethan Allen class sub kit. The kit is MUCH closer to an Ethan Allen class. Since I have several Renwal Allen class subs "in drydock" for refit, including a salvaged wreck that I sealed up just as Mr. Donnegan proposes, can you perhaps tell me and the other SMMLlies how to correct it into a proper Ethan Allen class. (sneaky ploy to get Tom to reveal more of his vast knowledge of submarines!!) Oh yes: any spare Renwal sub parts that any SMMLlie has out there (esp. a nose....) would be most welcome! David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 |http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard Subject: Re: Wooden decks and white paint OK folks I've sat back and watched with some amusement regarding the whys and the wherefores of metal ships with "tree lined" decks. As one who had to maintain a wooden deck ship, the two reasons above all the rest was EASE OF MAINTENANCE and TRADITION. All other reasons are pretty good but as a former "deck ape" it was a lot easier to splash some bleach on the planks and hose it off with sea water than to get a bunch of 18 year old boots with deck growlers raising a din for three weeks of paint removal and metal preparation. As for the footing and traction reason, the new 225 foot and 175 foot buoy tenders were to be sheathed with wood on the buoy deck for that traction reason. After the brain trust at HQ found out just how much a square foot of teak (or some other hard wood) cost they came to the conclusion that good old non-skid works just fine. The TRADITION aspect is self evident, what looks more squared away and nautical than a wooden deck warship, especially a white one with three 5 inch and two 3 inch open mount deck guns. All right, the cutters were built in the 1930's but they were probably the smallest warship(327 feet) constructed with wooden decking, with the possible exception of a Navy mine sweeper or ocean going tug. As for official CG white paint, we mixed a few drops of blue paint into the white paint cans, it gave a brilliant appearance to the ship, especially moored along side another cutter that didn't take as much pride as our vessel. And moored next to one of those gray Navy "rides" our cutter appeared to shine....But the Navy had us beat in hiding the rust department, one 40 day patrol in the mid Atlantic and we deck force types had our inport work well planned in advance. Been there, done that. Mike "chippin' hammer" Maynard USCG(Ret) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: USS Texas web sigth For the person that is looking for information on the USS Texas I did some surfing for ya on a web page that I try to keep an eye on, Ok the web page is called STEELNAVY.COM. GO this web sight, click on photo ship tours, then look under battle ships, click then look over the list, I just check it out and found some nice pictures of it as well as some good infomation date says aug 2002 on the sight, I hope that will help ya out, Don That Portland Rustbucket ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Burl Burlingame Subject: Re: CV-8 The test shots of the Hornet look very good indeed. And there's a complete etched-brass kit for it from Tom's Modelworks. BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: white paint For USCG, maybe you could look at Wargamers "Skull white", im using as that seems to be easiest white paint without streaking & having to thin (as I cant thin paint each time I try it stuffs up, so I always paint straight from the tin) well something to think about for those white items out there Andrew OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Converting W W 1 sub chaser into a yacht To: David N. Lombard Subject: Conversion drawings. The drawings whereof I speak is not a full set of working drawings, but two line drawings on one page of an 8 1/2 x 11 1921 Navy War Surplus sales brochure, giving suggestions on what to do if one were lucky enough to have procured one of these fine craft. They are very fine lined, and I am sure can be enlarged successfully. When you say "project", are you referring to a 1:1 model, or something smaller? As to your cost, I will use the sophisticated pricing structure so popular with the automobile companies, to wit: Price of a copy $29,999 Less Rebate $20,000 $999 Less cash discount $999 Grand Total $00,000 (plus 5% Massachusetts sales tax) Would you like to go for a test drive? Send me your Postal Address and I will send you a sample copy of the page. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Timothy Connelly" Subject: Re: 1;1 subchaser I would like to know more about this SC. My father was on SC-699, from '44 to '46. Timothy Connelly ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Stephen Allen" Subject: Re: USCG White thanks for the advice everybody Thanks for all the responses. It does sound like, whatever I choose, I should consider adding a drop of blue for that cool white look, and experiment a bit before I apply paint to model. You'll all see the results in the SMML members gallery in any case, when it's finished. regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Italian sub colors--I think you're wrong To John Snyder, I must respectfully disagree with you on the sub colors. Every Italian sub I've ever seen is usually a light tan color, split down the middle and packed with pink and red meats like salami, mortadella, cappacola, etc. Usually there's a lot of leaking oil, as well. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume