Subject: SMML VOL 2142 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 04:23:40 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Trumpeter 1/350 Essex 2: Missouri camoflage 3: Swastika orientation 4: Re: Swastika orientation 5: Re: Swastikas 6: Swastika orientation 7: Re: HMS Lion Plans 8: Old Models - was Re: Saratoga 9: UK ship models 10: Re: Plans Copyright 11: Swastika orientation 12: Liberty Ship Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Models for sale 2: Book for sale-Lexington and Saratoga 3: Iron Shipwright 1/350 scale Liberty ship for sale - needs work ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Trumpeter 1/350 Essex Hello all, I am sitting here admiring my new Trumpeter Essex. This one is really nice! I can't describe how well it's molded, how crisp the lines are, and hoe detailed it is. It is really great. The deck is especially beautiful. Compared to their Hornet kit, the deck is much better, the planking is finely cast, and the tiedown strips look really accurate. You get some new planes with this one, Avengers and Hellcats, done in the usual 3 color mold. They have Helldivers available separately, but they are not in this kit. The 5 inch twin mounts look really nice, as do all the 20's and twin 40 bofors. I can't find anything bad with this kit. I do notice there is no hull plating at all. The entire hull is smooth except for the portholes in the foc'sle. Hull plates were especially prominent on the stern, where they wrap around. But it's a small drawback. Like the Hornet kit, they give you a good color print with paints correlating to Gunze Mr. Color. Things are really looking up for larger scale ships! Next I believe they are planning to release either another Essex class or the Lexington, CV2. Let's keep our fingers crossed. By the way, as an added bonus they somehow included 3 decal sheets with my model. I wonder how many others have this dilemma??? The retail price of this kit is $120.00. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Raven0222 Subject: Missouri camoflage O.K. So did the Missouri have Teak decks at the end of war surrender ceremony? Or was it still the measure 22 blue? Most specifically which decks were returned to their natural state and when. Raven Arts ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Norman Samish" Subject: Swastika orientation >> I am disappointed that I haven't seen any responses to my query about the alternate orientations of the swastika emblems used by the Nazis. There must be a reason, I'm sure it wasn't just whimsy. Aside from the fact that the logo could be incorrectly displayed on models, a curious mind wants to know. << There are a lot of pictures of WW2 swastikas used by the Nazis on google.com. All that I saw showed the central cross at an angle with the top arm bent to the right. When the swastika appears with its legs pointing to the right it carries a negative symbolism. This kind of swastika, called sinistroverse, was specifically chosen by Adolf Hitler as the symbol of his Nazi movement. I can't find anything on Google that would suggest that Hitler authorized any other form of the swastika. If your speculations about alternate orientations being used on Nazi war equipment are correct, it would be fascinating information. This information came from http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swas_nazi_biblio.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Andy Vu Subject: Re: Swastika orientation Hi, fellow-modelers: I'm lost. What are "rolling swatstika", "horizontal swastika", "swastika at an angle" and "swastika at the regular angle"? Andy Vu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Swastikas Thanks for the information about swastika orientation. I have no hidden political agenda about it, one way or the other, nor do I have a Nazi ship model project going. Just curious. Apparently the German populace was as imprecise about their flag as is the American population today about our flag. It bugs me to see how the American flag is displayed with such disregard or concern for (or lack of knowledge of) correct flag etiquette. This ranges all the way from hanging it with the star field on the upper right to using it (or variations thereof) as clothing, especially the insult of trousers or shorts where the Stars and Stripes is sat upon, to the tastelessness of having John Wayne's or Geronimo's image, or some pseudo patriotic phrase superimposed on the stripes area. And it is not through lack of printed procedures for guidance, there are indeed many sources, from libraries to flag manufacturers, including schools and official U.S. Government sources. I find it inexcusable to see these transgressions promulgated by local Veteran's Organization Posts, for it is certainly they who should know better. And the Military is not immune, I have seen a news picture of a flag draped coffin with the star field over the right shoulder as the pall bearers carried the coffin off an airplane. And don't tell me the print was reversed, the military attendees were all saluting properly with their right hands. But back to pure curiosity. Why were the Nazi Concentration Camp male prisoners required to shave, apparently daily? Some pictures show that even their scalps were constantly shorn. If it was for reasons of sanitation, why were the female prisoners' heads not shorn? How did the guards control the razors? Yeah, I know, this has nothing to do with ship modeling, but I have found SMML to be a veritable well-spring of information in the past. It is a truly wonderful and interesting world out there, and like Andy Rooney, I am interested in many many things contained therein. And I like Andy's observation that given the vast number of interesting subjects, Michael Jackson is not one of them. Franklyn (who else?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Millen, Alan R." Subject: Swastika orientation In the latest SMML, 2140, Mr. Urudofsky refers to contemporary models with the hakenkreuz in a red disk. Am I misreading this, and he means white disk on a red banner, or did they actually utilize a red disk? Alan R. Millen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Bill Livingston" Subject: Re: HMS Lion Plans >> I sure hope the person/persons who sell these plans don't mind you diluting their business. What you are doing here is a very clear copy write violation. It would be like photo copying one of my books and giving it to your friends. Tell your friends not to be so cheap and buy their own copy. We who produce items like this do like what you are doing. It just wrong and you should know better. << Hi Steve, I take your points seriously and understand fully were you are coming from, but can I just say this in mitigation. The plans I own were bought by me from a private collector, and as far as I know are unavailable from any source. I think if you tried to buy a set yourself you would find it impossible to secure a source other than from another private collector in the same way that I did. This effectively means that a source of information that should be available to the modelling world has ceased to be. I happen to be fortunate enough to have a set that others would like to use, either as a reference for forthcoming HMS Lion kits that may or may not appear, or for scratchbuilding their own model. It seems to me that for me to hold onto these plans and to not offer them to genuine modellers when someone asks for help is selfish and not within the spirit of SMML. I think it would be quite a different situation if either I was making money from selling plans.... (Which I am not. I am only asking the very few people (4) that had asked, to cover my costs for the copy itself and the postage to them), or if the plans were available from a recognised source where they could be bought commercially, such as WEM, Floating Drydock or whoever. Obviously, if the plans WERE available elsewhere I would simply have pointed out where I bought mine and suggested as politely as possible that they should buy their own. This is a difficult area. What happens to copyright if the thing that is in copyright is unavailable from any source other than a private collection. Perhaps one option would be to find out who holds the copyright, the estate of the producer (in this case Norman Ough, copyright date 1959, who died a few years ago) and then to find if it is possible to pay a fee which would then allow the commercial reproduction and sale. Not an area I particularly want to get into as I don't have the time or the inclination. I thought I was helping out other modellers and, given I wasn't making a penny myself, believed I wouldn't be infringing any copyright. I checked on the web and discovered that copyright infringement still occurred if one was to make copies to distribute to fellow researchers, even if they are passed on free of charge. This obviously protects writers and publishers from loss of sales, but what happens when the item being copied isn't available for sale is unclear. I would be interested if anyone knows the answer to that. In the meantime I will take on board your comments and will not make further copies of these plans until someone gives me a clear answer on what is permissible within this forum and what is not (Shane?). I apologise to anyone who has become concerned at my actions and would like to re-emphasise that I had no intention of deliberately infringing copyright, or diluting anyone's business. But as I said, in this particular case, I believe I have not done so. Could the four people I have promised please note the comments above. All of you know who you are. Best wishes Bill Livingston Cambridge UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: D Wakefield Subject: Old Models - was Re: Saratoga Hi Ray, I am planning to dazzle the SARA (that's the big reason I got James Kloek's FSM article, cause it covers that aspect so well...along with how to fabricate the blister). Not to hide the imperfections, but because I love the look of dazzle. I'm pretty sure I can shorten the funnel (making it the right shape is an entirely different matter). I "think" I "might" be able to rework the forward bridge (I'm still thinking that one out in my head). However, the hull and deck seems to be one of those things I'll have to accept as-is (excluding chiseling/sanding off those waist/chest high deck markings). The radars, railings, guns, boats, planes, etc, will all be replaced with aftermarket pieces (or stuph of my own making). I've got one of those old models myself that for some reason I never did away with - a Revell USS BOSTON. I've thought about trying to reconstruct/accurize that model. Truthfully, if I did, there wouldn't be much left of the original model. However, after umpteen moves, it's now missing parts. So, one of these days, I am going to affect some damage control (I have most of the missing parts), do a little clean up, and then mount it in styrofoam type seaway base to hide the flatbottomed hull with a plexiglass cover to keep the dust off at least. I kept the model mainly to remind myself of a painful lesson I learned when I got the kit back in HS. Long story, suffice it to say I did something stupid, and the model sits on the shelf as a reminder DON'T DO THAT AGAIN!! The only reason this one is remains in as good of shape as it is, is largely because I left it with a friend for safe-keeping when I was moving about a lot. Probably a good thing, cause I'm not about to drop $60+ to get a unbuilt example of this kit. I keep hoping one of these days one of the aftermarket firms will put out a resin kit of the Boston or Canberra in 1:700. Then there's my first 1:700 -- a Tamiya Yamato. It has a tremendous amount of sentimental value, but it's in very poor condition. I gave it to a good friend many years back, and he returned it when he had to move and lacked space to keep it anymore. Since then, I've been trying to figure out what to do with it, because I can't bear to just throw it in the trash. No doubt, it would be cheaper/easier to buy a new one, but given the sentimental value aspect. I'm not sure how to address that one. Truthfully, this isn't the only old kit like this I have, but it's the only ship model that falls into this "future nebulous" category. I have a number of old Bandai Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers kits that are screaming for reconstruction. These I won't get rid of, because I'm a HUGE fan of the show. However, I built them slap-dash, some have multicoats of paint in areas where I began to refurbish them 15yrs ago, some were given to me by a friend who could not model his way out of a paper bag, and they all have a multitude of bits and pieces broken off and missing (most of which are long gone) over the years during moves, etc. Face it...most of them look like they were tossed in a bin at a thrift store (cause way back when I hadn't figured out how to pack them properly when I moved). And people wonder why I've become so fond of covered display cases. It would be impossible (or at best, cost prohibitive) to replace these old kits, so complete, total, and absolute reconstruction is my only option (including fabricating replacements for the missing/broken parts). From the sound of it, most of your older kits have been kept safe, while mine have undergone many trials and tribulations over the years. This is where we look at things differently. In order for me to display my older works, some measure of repair/reconstruction is necessary. Derek Wakefield ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CokerRE Subject: UK ship models Hi SMMLies, I am making a trip to Glasgow, Edinburgh, and London in late May and am setting up my itiniary to visit ship model collections. I am familiar with the models in the Tech Museum in Glasgow and the museums in London but am wondering if there are any good private collections that could be visited. Have never heard of any models in the Admiralty at Whitehall but surely there must be a lot. Are these accessible to the public? Does anyone know of any guides for hire with access to good non-public maritime collections? This past September while on a visit to Hamburg I was able to see the Tamm Museum which is not open to the public and is little known outside Germany. While this is a highly unusual institution, there must be similar ones in the UK with the long naval tradition. Any advice or help would be appreciated. Please contact me off line at cokerre@aol.com. Thanks, PC Coker/Charleston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: HGYL Subject: Re: Plans Copyright I quite agree with Steve Wiper about the immorality of copying plans and violating someone's copyright. How do you think people who make our hobby so enjoyable earn their living? John Lambert, for example, spends most of his waking hours researching and drawing. I am sure you can imagine how he would feel if his drawings were copied and passed from modeller to modeller. Norman Ough's drawings are available from many sources without violating copyright. Try Abe Taubman for a start. Regards to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: MDDoremus Subject: Swastika orientation Franklyn, I'm not the authority you seek, but I dimly recall that the swastika with the arms to the left (right) is an ancient (Native American or Viking origin) symbol for friendship. In this guise it was carried on the Indian war bonnets placed on the airplanes of the Lafayette Escadrille during W.W.II. With the arms in the other direction, it was the symbol adopted by the Nazis for their flags. I assume that it too had a ancient origin, perhaps from an occult source. If it was worth something, this would be my 2 cents. Mark Doremus St. Louis, MO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Liberty Ship Models Paper Models International in OR advertises a few card-stock Liberties (Jeremiah O'Brien and John W. Brown): JSC43, 1/400; HLM34/02, 1/200; WH1264, 1/250; as well as a Victory, JFC53, 1/400. These are model numbers of the manufacturers, and I have not a clue as to quality, availability, one-over-the-other, etc. Never ordered any of them. At least two of the kits include an escorting DD or DDE as well. Prices look like the range of $8,$11,$22,and $25. Anybody ever build any of them? Evaluation? Gene Katz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Models for sale We got in part of a huge collection of ship models. I am offering the following models at the price listed plus actual postage. AAA HOBBIES GUARANTEES all of our E-bay and online purchases to complete as advertised. We accept Visa/MC/AMEX/Discover, PayPal (to account aaahobby@bellsouth.net) Personal Checks (10 day hold - US Only) or money orders. All packages shipped via UPS, but FedEx or USPS Priority Mail with delivery confirmation is available upon specific request and for post office boxes. Due to recent lax procedures by the post office and reported package thefts, all USPS packages with apartment addresses will incur a mandatory extra $1.75 for signature verification Sorry, but we believe **YOU** deserve to get your merchandise, not the thief across the hall! Int'l orders welcome, but require Visa/MC/AMEX/Discover payment, and will ship via Air Mail at cost. (Insurance is not available on less expensive Small Packet Air Mail, only on the more expensive package rate). mfg kit# name scale price Revell H-380 HMS King George V 1/570 $20 Doyusha BS-10-200 Chokai 1/700 $10 Revell Ceji 5035 Zerstorer Z1 (Fletcher) 1/301 $10 Airfix 06206 HMS Repulse 1/600 $10 Airfix 04208-4 HMS Ark Royal 1/600 $10 Airfix 04203 HMS Nelson 1/600 $10 Matchbox PK-352 HMS Duke of York 1/700 $10 Aoshima A202:500 Chuyo 1/700 $12 Minicraft B-26:350 Hiryu 1/700 $15 Fujimi A-82:700 Ryujo 1/700 $12 Fujimi A025:500 Shokaku 1/700 $15 Tamiya A024:500 Shinano 1/700 $15 Hasegawa B-9:400 Akagi 1/700 $15 Hasegawa A113:950 USS Hancock 1/700 $15 Aoshima A087:700 Katsuragi 1/700 $15 Airfix F2S HMS Cossack 1/600 $15 James Corley AAA Hobby Supply ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Book for sale-Lexington and Saratoga Hello I've picked up a duplicate book which I will put for sale. This is a Polish book "Encyklopedia Okretow Wojennych #20" Lexington and Saratoga cz.1 by Grzegorz Nowak, published by the AJ Press. This book is in mint condition with minimal to no wear. The text is all in Polish, but the pictures are all self explanatory. They even have a picture of the Lex dockside at Tacoma in 1929 supplying power to the city. Book has a section of all aircraft operating from these carriers. There is even a set of 1/350 plans for the carrier as well as her original design as a Cruiser. On the flip side of the plans are hull line drawings and general arrangement drawings. This book normally retails for around $25.00. I'm offering it, first come first served, for $18.00 which includes postage to any US address. International postage will be higher, depending on location. Email me: rdauteuil at attbi dot com if interested. Thanks, Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SeaPhoto Subject: Iron Shipwright 1/350 scale Liberty ship for sale - needs work Hello Everyone I have a new in box Iron Shipwright Liberty ship for sale. It needs work - just about all the bulwarks are cracked off or hanging by just a bit. They are all in the box, so you can CA them in place. Still, this will need to be done carefully, so I am offering this kit at less than half the new price of $ 175.00. You can purchase it for $ 85.00 plus actual cost of shipping to your location. I will take Paypal for this. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography - onboard details and overhead views of modern warships www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume