Subject: SMML VOL 2278 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 02:39:22 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Spruance class destroyer 2: Help! 3: Atlanta turrets 4: Atenesobo Yamato 5: Flying Boat Loire 130 6: Yamato: 15 m & 17 m Motor Pinnaces 7: Floating Drydock & Pitroad 8: flaGs 9: How to find an old ship model? 10: Lafayette 11: Re: USS Constitution 12: Ark Royal 13: Model Construction Specs 14: USS Constitution's Boats 15: Polish Destryer ORP Burza 16: Brown Water Navy 17: Y Gun 18: Camouflage ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Spruance class destroyer I recently picked up a Minicraft kit (#11311) of the Spruance class destroyer, 1/700 scale. I've not seen any reviews of this kit anywhere. Anybody have a review? Does anyone produce a photoetched brass part set for this kit? Michael McMurtrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "D Wakefield" Subject: Help! Where can I find some single and twin 3-in/50 cal AA guns in 1:700 scale? I don't have web access so I'm limited to mail order. An email contact would be appreciated. Any help would be appreciated. Please contact me offlist at blacktiger at chatter dot com. Thanks, Derek Wakefield ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ron Subject: Atlanta turrets >> I'm in the process of painting a 1:350 Atlanta in the disruptive camo pattern that she wore when she was sunk. All horizontal surfaces are SUPPOSED to be deck blue according to my references (e.g., Glen Arnold's book on the class). However, when I study the photographs of her in Arnold's book (and there are VERY few after the initial sea trials), it appears to me that while the decks are all blue, the tops of the turrets are not. This seems to be true of several of this class in '42. For example, there is an overhead shot of (I believe) San Diego, which shows that the decks (including those above the 01 level) are all dark (presumably) blue, but the turret tops are much lighter. This includes one turret that is in shadow behind the superstructure. This leads me to conclude that, for some reason, the tops of the turrets were either haze or ocean gray. Does this make sense? It strikes me as odd because the lighter turrets REALLY stand out in the photos. << I just finished her Vince and from what I can see in the few photos available the turret tops carried the disruptive camo. I found some online photos and blew them up and the camo continues at least up the angled plate above the guns, no definite answer on the tops since I couldn't find any clear photos that show them. On my model I just did the camo on the whole turret. Be aware that apparently nothing forward of turret 1 was grey, it was all deck blue as were the K-guns and the spuds for the ready depth charges. Aft of turret 6 some og the vents and deck boxes appear to have been grey as were the gun tubs. I'll be sending Jeff and Tim a bunch of photos of my model for the modelwarships gallery later today. Or just go here for some in process shots: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ronhalfdanr/lst?.dir=/atlanta&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Evangelos Aragiannis" Subject: Atenesobo Yamato Yes, Atenesobo is the publisher but I bought it from Amazon.co.jp. If you send an email to help department they will guide you on how to move around buying stuff in their Japanese language site. Not so hard as it may seem. The hardest part is the price wich was around 20,000Yen. ISBN 4-87152-209-1 GOOD LUCK!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Nuno J. V. Rubim" Subject: Flying Boat Loire 130 Many thanks to Urudofsky and Jacques Druel for thair replies on the Loire 130 Flying Boat. N.Rubim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Nuno J. V. Rubim" Subject: Yamato: 15 m & 17 m Motor Pinnaces For future reference in searching SMML Archives, I always will state in the subject the appropriate questions I will put on the list. Today, based again on Skulski's book, I'm asking if anybody can tell me where can I find drawings of the hull lines of the 15m and 17m Motor Pinnaces embarked on Yamato. Thanks N.Rubim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Floating Drydock & Pitroad Hi Does any one what happened to the Floating Drydock and Pitroad Skywave icons on Steelnavy? Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: flaGs hoWdy Ya'Ll, thank yOu MaurIce anD daRreN foR the inFO oN thE FlagS. i'M reaLLy lOOkiNG foR CloTh, liKE NylOn, fLagS. DaRrEn, If yoU wouLD, PLeasE cONTact Me oFFlisT, I wouLd AppreCIAtE yOUR HelP. One morE thing, tHe LasT ConFederAte burIAL wiLL bE mY wifE iF shE doesN'T quiT RippiN' on mY caMo. JObs. thAnkS AgiN, DAVid in diXie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "BRUCE BULLOCK" Subject: How to find an old ship model? Hello all, One of the first model ships I built was a model of the SS Catalina, which was purchased in the early sixties on Santa Catalina Island of the coast of Southern California. The SS Catalina carried passangers to and from Los Angeles to Avalon from 1924 to 1974 and is currently sunken in Ensenada Harbor, hopefully awaiting salvage. I have searched the internet and several ship model lists to see if I can locate a model, but no trace of it can be found. If I had not previously owned it, I would say no model of her ever existed. I have no idea who the manufacturer was, or what the scale was. Can anyone give me any leads or new directions to search? Thanks, Bruce ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mac Dale Subject: Lafayette I wonder why it takes so long to get the kit properly distributed...It seems to me the Panda Burke from China was here relatively quickly after its release. I emailed Heller to find out when I could get it in Canada and was told December, that was in may! Seriously tho, I cant wait, it looks like a grand kit. It also comes in a bigger kit with Hellers Charles De Gaulle. Hopeful in Halifax, Ian http://gwardnet.d2g.com/mac/ Mac's Naval Photography Editor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Roe, ToddX C" Subject: Re: USS Constitution David, THE authority (or at least I think so) on the many colors and configurations of USS Constitution throughout her years would definitely have to be Ray Morton. His research is staggering. I believe that the reply in SMML Volume 2275 from "billkaja" was right on the money. Another good source of info is the book "A Most Fortunate Ship, revised" by Tyrone Martin (sorry, no detailed pictures...). I managed to glean a few details from the text about configuration during the 1812 conflict (for instance, the gun port lids were split horizontally, but REMOVED during battle rather than being hinged as they are today). The only known "official" model of her 1812 configuration is the Isaac Hull model on display in Boston (you can see some black and white photo's here: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us/uspers-h/i-hull-x.htm; there's also a ship modeling magazine article on the model/ship downloadable in PDF format: Issue#2 on the Downloads page @ http://www.mtcl00167.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Journal/index.htm). I am currently working on the 1:96 Revell behemoth using the above as references to accurize/paint the kit. I've done a fair amount of research into this and IMHO, I have found that these sources are the ones to go with. Hope this helps. Todd Roe ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Iain Wyllie Subject: Ark Royal Very interesting to see the clear profile photograph showing the two tone scheme - a great pity that the interpretation in Camouflage Vol. 1 was so inaccurate, missing the rise in the demarcation line forward and the two dark grey rectangles at the bow, one reason I distrust profile artwork unless it has photographic backup. Or is there yet another photo showing the starboard side? Could the two rectangles forward be meant to represent the quarter deck openings in an attempt to confuse a U-boat as to which direction the ship was travelling? Having seen this photo it is now obvious that the theories regarding a halted repaint are wrong and that what we were looking at was simply the light grey 507C wearing off and exposing the original overall medium grey 507B. The reason it looked patchy was probably the effect of brush painting which produces uneven thicknesses of paint due to double covering areas when starting and stopping painting etc. and obviously, as the thinner paint wears first, the original under coat would appear in an increasingly patchy fashion until the topcoat disappeared completely as can be seen at the bows in the photos taken at the time of the sinking. So, it would seem that the hull had simply been given one coat of 507C at some stage in mid '41 to the pattern in the photo and this was wearing off at the time of her demise. Re. Les Pickstocks "irregular shaped marks at the stern". Those on the light grey are the quarter deck shipside openings and on the darker grey are probably wake reflections on the wet hull. Iain Wyllie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: rolie muise Subject: Model Construction Specs The USN ship model Curator Specs are on line. Is the Royal Navy and/or other navy model specs on line and where are they? thanks rolie in Nova Scotia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: David Garrett Subject: USS Constitution's Boats Thanks thus far for all the help on the USS Constitution's color schemes. Another question about the frigate's boats (ca. 1812). Seems to be some conflicting information on the color of the frigate's varioius boats. Mr. Ray Morton indicates that boats of the same type were white but painted with a different color strake along the top by which they could be distinguished. The author, Tyrone Martin ("A Most Fortunate Ship"), suggests that boats of the same type were wholly painted different colors. This seems to be born out by the model of "Old Ironsides" in the Smithsonian as well as the vessel now docked in Boston (i.e., the boat on the port quarter appears green while that on the right white). Were like boats (a) all painted white; (b) painted white but with different colored strakes (single bands along the top); or (c) painted different colors in their entirety? Thank you. David Garrett San Antonio, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Barnum" Subject: Polish Destryer ORP Burza I am building the Mirage kit and would like to known the colour of the decks.I have found a card model of the ship in 1:200 and it shows the deck as blue. The shade is close to the Humbrol 25. I would be grateful if any one can confirm this or correct me. John Barnum Kent England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Brown Water Navy I understand that there is a Brown Water Navy Memorial and museum in San Diego that has several preserved craft. How about one of you left coast types, if you have some time off from your ongoing public spectacle going out there and doing a photo shoot. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Y Gun To Darsham Ward Please forgive what might be a dumb question (I may have missed something). But what do you mean when you use the term "Y gun"? In WW 1 the Y gun was a "Y" shaped device that launched two depth charges simultaneously, one to each side of the vessel, from the deck of a submarine chaser whilst under way at top speed. They hit the water about 50 yards or so away and sank to a preset depth and exploded. They were later replaced with a "K" gun which was really half a Y gun and launched only one depth charge. Several K guns could be placed along each side on the deck of a destroyer or other fast ship. Both types were used in conjunction with roll-off racks for dropping depth charges off the stern, creating an area pattern rather than a linear pattern. The Y gun seems well named, for it does indeed resemble the letter "Y". But I am hard pressed to connect the letter "K" with the K gun's configuration. Franklyn Is the type of Y gun to which you refer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fkbrown9 Subject: Camouflage I recall some conversations about naval camouflage on SMML recently. I was referencing a WW 1 book recently and found a chapter about the subject, which might be of interest to some. The book is by Lawrence Perry, the title is OUR NAVY IN THE WAR, published in New York by Charles Scribner's Sons in 1918. Your local library can obtain it for you through the interlibrary loan network. The subject is described in Chapter XI, and covers camouflage--America's system of low visibility and the British dazzle system--Americans worked out principles of color in light and color in pigment--British sought merely to confuse the eye--British system applied to some of our transports. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume