Subject: SMML VOL 2288 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:20:43 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: hmm what every family man should have 2: Fujimi 1/700 USS Kitty Hawk and Constellation 3: HP again 4: Re: Flattop/Boot Topping 5: Matchbox kits 6: Re: "Complete Encyclopedia of Ships" 7: Re: Tanker Ohio 8: HP Models 9: Line drawings in books 10: Russian "Kapusta" or "Ural" 11: Hasegawa Ise, new mold 12: Re: 1:700 sub kits 13: Re: Boot Topping 14: Modern USN Colors 15: HMS Faulknor camoflage 16: Stern surgery ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: SMML Site Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: andrew jones Subject: hmm what every family man should have Seems this company has shown off on the Thames i think, their new sports car that doubles as a boat!! http://www.aquada.host.goodtechnology.net/aquada/homepage.jsp?flash=true trouble is.i cant see anywhere to put the rod & reel or will it be the next Bond car?? regards Andrew Jones ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Stephenquock Subject: Fujimi 1/700 USS Kitty Hawk and Constellation Ahoy Mates, The Fujimi 1/700 USS Kitty Hawk and Constellation are advertised in several versions, including "new molds." Can anyone tell me the differences in the various kits issued and their quality? Thanks in advance. Stephen Quock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: HP again Please can one of our German speaking enthusiasts explain the following for me? "Bewaffneter Tanker 1939" Cheers. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Flattop/Boot Topping I have to concur with Bob Donovan: by 'Nam, the general slang term for carriers was "Bird Farm." (Fortunately, in the destroyer navy we didn't have to put up with jarheads aboard--they couldn't have hacked the rough ride anyway!). ;^) >> Also as a gunner's mate we painted the tops of our guns (5") battleship gray to diffuse light and also the 40MM's and torpedo rack amidships (battle condition in NAM) << James, what ship did you serve in? In BAINBRIDGE (Tonkin Gulf, 1966-70), everything was painted according to the book, so that the tops of gun barrels, torpedo tubes, ASROC launcher, etc. were Haze Gray (but then we were either on Yankee Station or North SAR, not on the gun line). Your counterpainting just goes to show that uniformity still doesn't exist, and all us ship modellers still need to consult as many references as possible for specific ships. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Craig Bennett" Subject: Matchbox kits Hi Has the Matchbox model Co. gone out of business? I remember them making kits of such ships as the HMS EXETER, TIGER, ARIADNE?, DUKE OF YORK?, KELLY and there was some US ships. I think there was a FLETCHER, INDIANAPOLIS and PENSACOLA? Does any one else remember this company? Are any of these kits still in production? Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GKingzett Subject: Re: "Complete Encyclopedia of Ships" Roger, Your response was exactly what I had hoped to see. The book looks like a coffee table book, which is unfortunate, because its content is, as you say, "prodigious." I have used it as a guide for painting several models. In each of those instances, I have been able to find other information which agrees. In my current project, the first battleship New Jersey, BB-16, there are some contradictions. But, ultimately, I am taking Gibbons word for it, and hoping for the best. Thanks to all of you who weighed in, you were all very helpful. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward Wyatt" Subject: Re: Tanker Ohio I Have Built THREE of this Model, 1/96 Scale [5ft 8inch] so lots of detail.,2 in WAR Livery and one in "as built" they are in the War @ Maritme Museums of MALTA any person wishing details, contact me, as I carried 5 Years researshing, I have also a copy of the original 1939 drawings, etc etc Edward Wyatt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: HP Models Just a thank you to all who responded to my request for info re HP Models. Perhaps Detlef could let me have his contact details to arrange a purchase or three.... chris@drage.co.uk My humble apologies to John Currie....to deliberately mistake his rank as P.O. when of course it's C.P.O...........unforgiveable...........bet I get to clean the latrines now...... Sorry Chiefy..... Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Line drawings in books Hi Friedrich: For a general question about finding good plans in books, you could run the gamut from sailboats (pick up almost any copy of Wooden Boats magazine and revel in the drawings) to capital ships. If you don't have one already, definitely obtain "Fast Fighting Boats" by Fock. Very good drawings of E-Boots, coastal craft and a nice arrangement set for the E-Boot tender Tsingtau showing sections, decks and a profile. This title was produced by the U.S. Naval Institute Press in 1978 and printed in England by Nautical Publishing Company Ltd. It's out of print but definitely worth a search. I saw a copy on e-Bay recently, so I know they can still be found. And, of course, there are the Anatomy of the Ship series books. I'm building a short Focs'le WWIII Corvette in 1/192 scale using the book "The Flower Class Corvette Agassiz" by McKay and Harland as my sole building guide--excellent plans! Only need more hours in the day to complete the project and write it up for my magazine. If tugs get your modeling blood going, get a copy of P.N. Thomas' "British Steam Tugs." A nice compilation of plan sets showing the development of the British steam tug. A few military types are included. So that's my general answer to a general question. I scour used book stores and have found some gems like a bound copy of "Motorship" showing commercial ships for the year 1924, including a wealth of plans for freighters, dredges and tugs. The store wanted to get rid of the copy and let me have it for $10 U.S. Happy hunting--that's the best part! Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Phil Stewart Subject: Russian "Kapusta" or "Ural" Are there any models of the Russian command ship / space operations ship "Kapusta" (by NATO code name) or "Ural"? I'm fascinated by some of these strange Soviet & Russian auxiliaries. For that matter, that Kosmonaut Yurii Gagarin space operations ship would make an interesting kit. Has anyone covered that subject? Phil Stewart ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Phil Stewart Subject: Hasegawa Ise, new mold Okay, I just bought Hasegawa's new rendition of the IJN BB/CV Ise, circa 1944. What an improvement! Hasegawa's old mold had so many inaccuracies that I'm still working on re-forming it into a sort of accurate representation. Paolo Pizzi of Navismagazine summarized it as "one of Hasegawa's worst kits." Here are some of the improvements, with exceptions noted. First, the deck just forward of the after superstructure, where the catapults are mounted, is accurately represented-- a large-scale feature of the ship after its refit as a battleship/aircraft carrier (really battleship/ seaplane tender) that is lacking entirely in the old kit. Second, the hull shape looks a little closer to the pictures I've seen-- torpedo-defense bulges looking to be appropriately thick. Third, the aft flight deck support stanchions look accurately represented. (Exception: in photographs, we see the center rear support has a deck of some kind about halfway up, with some kind of observation gear or search light or something mounted on a platform-- and this platform does not appear to be accurately represented. It's probably passable, but it's not quite right.) Fourth, the forward "pagoda" superstructure looks to be a better representation as well (though the original kit is pretty re-formable, with some care). Of course there are still inaccuracies. On the ship, there is some kind of an antenna or observation platform below the one on the uppermost deck, sticking forward, and apparently connected with it by a ladder. Only one of these little platforms is depicted in the kit (the upper one). This could reflect a post-1944 addition, but it is a difference with the pictures of the sunken Ise, circa 1945. In a similar vein, there is a narrow skirting deck just above the foremost 127 mm (?) dual AA gun mounts, visible in pictures of the sunken ship. It's tiny and will probably be easily represented with some scratchbuilt modification. Interestingly, the painting guide provided in the instructions displays some inaccuracies in the forward "pagoda" that aren't present in the model! Fifth, the deck planking looks like it is depicted at about the right scale. I haven't measured, but it looks much, much better than the original, which would have scaled to something like two-or-three-foot-wide planks. Sixth, the after superstructure looks about right. Skirting the bottom of it appears to be some piping of some kind in pictures of the ship-- it's hard to tell what is going on with it. Profile Morskie depicts a grating of some kind, which doesn't appear to reflect what the photographs show. Hasegawa's representation is close to what the pictures show, and passable as a placeholder at least. Seventh, some inaccuracies in the flight deck that were present in the original model have been repaired. The original has a maddeningly dumb difference in rail gauge between the transport rails and the eight little rails that flank the turntables, apparently where planes were to be kept on the deck's edge. That gauge difference is fixed in the new kit. The splinter shields surrounding the aftmost triple-MG mounts, maddeningly clumsy in the original, are fixed as well, with breaks in the appropriate places. There is a representation of the bomb-hoist hatch at the forward end of the flight deck (at the center line)-- though there is no hoist. The hoist would have been easy to represent-- presuming references like Profile Morskie are accurate. As for the rim of the after deck, there is a nice camber to the underside, and a representation of support girders-- not bad though I can't comment on the accuracy. Modelers will still need to perform some champfering to sharpen up the edges and give the appropriate thinness at the edge. The underside of the flight deck, where it is open at the aft end, is an enigma to me, and I have been able to find no decent photographs of it. Is there a deck of some kind in there, in addition to the small platform halfway up the aft support post? Hasegawa supplies a somewhat different representation in the new model than it does in the old (as mentioned above), but I have no way to verify its accuracy. References just are not sufficient on this-- unless Miyukikai (Myco) covers this section of the ship well. Thin girders supporting the boxlike structures near the rear of the flight deck are represented with clumsy solid plastic as well, giving the impression that Hasegawa figures it will be replaced with photo-etched metal parts (Gold Medal Models and (I think) Tom's Modelworks both supply these. I am using the GMM set myself). The actual shapes of these girders appear in photos to be different from the way references portray them. Caveat modeler! The aftmost portion of the main deck still sports an aircraft transport rail. It's not too visible but I'm not particularly pleased with it. I expect I will sand it off, and replace the anti-skid deck plating with photo etch by Fine Molds. Flanking the rear of the flight deck are batteries of anti-aircraft rockets. They are represented as one piece of solid plastic. It wouldn't be too hard to modify them with drill, scriber, et cetera, but I'd recommend sanding down the launchers and replacing with photo-etch like Fine Molds's IJN anti-aircraft rocket battery. Champfer underneath this deck with a file to portray the deck with appropriate thinness. Add photo-etch railings. If Profile Morskie is right, use photo etch such as Fine Molds's anti-skid tread plate to represent the deck. Eighth: A glaring inaccuracy of the original, in the representation of the superstructure flanking the funnel, is much improved in the new kit. The splinter shield thingamabob at the rear is there. The shape of the deck is right (the original diagonal line didn't extend it out to the edge of the ship and looked terrible). There is even a representation of the wide staircase descending from either side of that deck (though its angle and placement are both wrong; it should be pointed a little closer towards the centerline of the ship than it would if it stuck out straight from the upper deck it descends from (to the main deck). Replace with photo-etch (if available)! The funnel's flanking girder structure is still represented in a solid hunk of plastic. It seems clear that Hasegawa's artisans have figured modelers will replace this with photo-etched latticework, like some of the aft supporting latticework beneath the flight deck. The main gun turrets are much, much improved, with the unique scalloping of the armor on them well represented. Sticklers will notice that in photographs the armor plating displays visible seam-edges all around the rim, which are not represented in the new kit (or the old). I have the resulting 90 degree grooves represented in my 'fix' of the old kit's turrets-- we'll see how it looks when done. It's a minor point easily forgiven. It is unclear to me if the number of "scallops" to the top armor on the turrets is really correct. Photos tell me it isn't, but I may not be interpreting them right, myself. It *appears* that there is one more "lip" on the new kit than photos of the turret show. The surface details such as the periscope hood (?) and ladder-like hand-holds atop the turret are very crisply detailed. There's a lot more to cover, but that's probably more detail than all but the most daring will read. ;) I started accurizing my old Ise BB/CV from Hasegawa because it plain sucked, and I wanted something like a realistic-looking after deck and flight deck support structure. I still haven't found myself a good reference on the area under that flight deck, and I've drifted into a full-court press to get historical, eidetic fidelity to an established photographic record. It's been pretty interesting, actually. Hasegawa's kit number 119, representing the Ise after its 1944 refit, is a magisterially well crafted, very well-researched kit, well worth the $42 I paid for it, and will reward any modeler who puts it together, with or without the help of advanced aftermarket modifications like photo-etched metal. Bravo to Hasegawa! Phil Stewart Washington, DC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ives100 Subject: Re: 1:700 sub kits >> This is the Gato kit that I am looking for, do you know where I can get one? Or is it out of production? I also thank you for the info to correct the problems with the kit. BTW would it be hard to convert one of the gato hulls to fit the type VII upper hull? << Pacific Front has the kits: TM31005 US Navy Sub Gato Class w/Subchaser $9.00 They are Tamiya, not Skywave; my mistake. You can get the photetch sets directly from Tom's Modelworks, although Bill Gruner may carry those also. The Gato class hull was much larger than a Type VII (311 ft vs. 211 in length, and 27 ft vs 19 ft in beam). The Type VII at nominally 500 tons displacement, is much closer to an old US S-boat size. Gatos were closer to 1500 tons. I see no easy way to adapt the Gato hull to a Type VII if both are in 1:700 scale. Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Arthur Taylor" Subject: Re: Boot Topping In SMML 2287, Roger Chesneau refers to the book "Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships". I have not read this book myself, but sense that if the contributors included Roger and John Roberts, then the contents would be as reliable as one could ever hope for, particularly or late 19c and early 20c ships in the case where no specific documentation appears to exist. In a conversation I once had with John on the likely color scheme of a Victorian RN ship, having given me a considered opinion, he reminded me that there was indeed no absolute certainty. Even in the presence of a photo, uncertainty would exist when the difficulty of interpreting B&W shots of the time was taken into account (a subject discussed on SMML in the past). In the absence of official documents, such as Admiralty/Navy Dept. instructions of the time, we "mortals" must rely on the opinions or even the "best guesses" of the better-informed. Brian Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Modern USN Colors I know I have seen this posted before, so I beg your indulgence, but what are the colors and FS595 numbers for the paints used on modern US naval vessels? Thanks. Michael McMurtrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Gordon Scott" Subject: HMS Faulknor camoflage I'm trying to model HMS Faulknor in 1942 as on the cover of Raven's RN Camoflage vol 2. The description within states that she was painted in MS1, B5, MS3 & white. but I can only really see 3 colours, a dark, medium & light grey/white. The problem is the MS3, it is not really a light grey like 507c but it is significantly lighter than B5. Can anyone help me with these colours. Gordon Scott, Cambridge, UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mike Potter Subject: Stern surgery I'm preparing to build one or two of the RN's frigate designs of the late 1940s that were conversions from WW2 emergency-program destroyers. To take advantage of WEM's 1/600-scale PE and other existing parts, I'm using the Airfix Tribal-class destroyer 1/600 kit as the basis. My main interests are in the weapons and electronics so I can live with innocuous differences in the hulls. Except for one: The hull of the kit is about 8mm too long at the waterline and it ends in a rounded stern compared to the transom stern of the emergency-program destroyers. A possible solution to both of those discrepancies is to amputate the Tribal stern and then to replace it with card stock and caulk. For this kit, that is radical surgery. The hull comes in two pieces and the sternpost is an assembly joint. I'm considering that I should first assemble the original hull, insert bracing to keep it rigid during cutting, and then add the deck. Or should I make the hull cuts first? Has anyone advice about how to do this? You may contact me off-list at potter4@att.net. Thanks, Mike Potter San Diego, Calif., USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) FRon Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML Site Update For those of you who read with interest the HMS Onslow thread, we have received a photo courtesy WR Press and have added this to the Misc reference page Images of HMS Trincomalee added to the RN Reference page and the archives have been updated (from 2269 - 2288). Cheers Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume