Subject: SMML VOL 2576 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:09:10 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http//sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1 Re Torpedo Nets 2 torpedo nets 3 Ward colors 4 Re Color of USS WARD 5 Ships with Steel Skirts -- was Torpedo Nets 6 Looking for a source for 1/350th parts 7 "Naracoopa" 8 Suvla Bay Diorama 9 Re KGV crane 10 Re Trip to Virginia 11 Re Submarine Disasters ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From "John Snyder" Subject Re Torpedo Nets >> They were strictly for protection at anchor, I can't think anyone was foolhardy enough to try to handle them under weigh, they were b----- enough to set when standing still. << Well, in point of fact, there was a torpedo net system used by merchant ships underway during WW2 (yes, I realize the original post had to do with nets used by capital ships). A number of merchant ships used the system, and a number had the system actually work and snag German torpedoes before they could hit the ship (and a number were torpedoed despite having the nets deployed). Best regards, John Snyder White Ensign Models http//WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From sift@comcast.net Subject torpedo nets According to Peter Elpphick in his book, "Liberty the Ships That Won the War" Published by the Naval Institute Press in 2001--torpedo nets were used on occassion but without much success, while underway. One fifth of the Liberty Ships were fitted with Torpedo Net Defense (TND) see pages 262-263 and 216 for additional information. Dave Fisher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From Burl Burlingame Subject Ward colors I'm scratching a 1/96 USS Ward and came to exactly the same conclusion Steve did. In pictures of Pearl Harbor-era ships, look not just at the image of the ship but the area around it. The ship at Pearl were often so dark that photographic prints had to be underexposed to show detail on the ship .... BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From Jon Warneke Subject Re Color of USS WARD Hi Everyone, USS WARD was painted in accordance with Measure 1 using 5-D and 5-L on 7 DEC 1941. Why? The documentation shows the following. 1. The camouflage order cited for the speculation that Pacific Fleet ships were painted blue (no one has yet given a specific color) is 15CL41. It stated specifically "…9. Pending receipt of comprehensive instructions from the Bureau of Ships, no change is contemplated in the present directive providing for the general application of Measure 1 to ships in the U.S. Pacific Fleet. However, inasmuch as the manufacture of Formula 5-D has been discontinued, painting will of necessity be limited to touching up with available supplies of this paint, until general issue of the new formulas, 5-S, 5-O, and 5-H has been initiated. Ships having exhausted supplies of formula 5-D, will requisition sufficient Formula 5-S, to apply Measure 1A of paragraph 2 above [applies 5-S to all vertical and horizontal surfaces except decks], and will report application of this measure to Type Commanders…" Thus, 15CL41 does NOT authorize replacement of Measure 1 with Measure 11, nor does it authorize wholesale repainting of ships. It specifically states that 5-D is to be used until the existing supplies have been exhausted, and then new paints are to be requisitioned. 2. Measure 1A, which is hypothesized to have been used on Ward, was codified later as Measure 11, which was overall 5-S Sea Blue. No provision in the instructions for the application of Measure 1A is allowed for the use of 5-L as a part of this measure. Since there is an existing picture of Ward dated 22 JULY 1941 at this location http//www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h80000/h80393.jpg and the order authorizing the use of Measure 1A in an experimental situation on a specific ship (USS Porter DD356) on 8 September 1941, would specifically preclude the use of Measure 1A on Ward. 3. 5-N was not authorized for use by Pacific Fleet until 3 FEB 1942. 4. 5-S was not authorized for general use by Pacific Fleet until 6 OCT 1941, and experiments were still be conducted with 5-S as of 7 DEC 1941. 5. 5-L is NOT authorized for use with Measure 1A, and Ward was NOT allocated for experimental camouflage work, since she was not part of DesRon 5. Therefore, unless experimental colors were being mixed into authorized measures without any authorizing orders by Pacific Fleet, and somehow very large qualities of 5-S were produced, shipped to, and applied by Pearl Harbor Navy Yard between 6 OCT and 7 DEC 1941 in direct disobedience with 15CL41 concerning the use of 5-D, Ward, and all other ships not involved in experimental evaluations, were painted in Measure 1 on 7 DEC 1941. Jon Warneke ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From EDWARD GRUNE Subject Ships with Steel Skirts -- was Torpedo Nets Richard Wooten writes in SMML2575 >> Torpedo nets were steel interlinked rings at a guess about 9 inches in diameter and half an inch thick. They were strictly for protection at anchor, I can't think anyone was foolhardy enough to try to handle them under weigh, they were b----- enough to set when standing still. << In a 1989 WARSHIPS article by L. Norbury-Williams, he describes the early Royal Navy's torpedo nets as being 6.5-inch rings joined by smaller ones. The met weighed 1 pound per square foot as was capable of stopping a 14-inch/27 knot torpedo. Later developments and the addition of the net shelf decreased the mesh-size and increased the weight to 5 pounds per foot. As handleing expertise was developed the Royal Navy proved that the nets could be streamed while underway. In 1906 the Channel Fleet steamed with nets down. The worlds other navys briefly experimented with nets and discarded them. The RN held onto them until the German Navy's development of the net cutter on the nose of its torpedos and the sinking of the net-protected Triumph and Majestic off of Gallipoli. The author claims that some observers maintained that the British were reluctant to discard the nets because 'Nets Out' was a valued drill. Norbury-Williams goes on to describe a system of merchant ship torpedo countermeasure nets that were developed and used during WWII. The nets were a woven-steel mesh. The size of the openings was a function of tow-speed (with 9.5 knots the optimum). The design life for a set of nets was 400 hours - the time to cross the Atlantic. They were to be fitted on high-value tankers and freighters. The ship suffered a 8 to 10 percent speed reduction due to drag. Nets were withdrawn from service as the Germans once again introduced net cutters on the noses and fins of their torpedos. Ed Grune Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From "Mike Petersen" Subject Looking for a source for 1/350th parts I am building 2 1/350 Enterprises. One of the kits ismissing an anchor so I am looking for somewhere to get anotherone, or a place that I can buy all new ones. I am also looking for places to get bombs, drop tanks and missiles. If I could get them all in one place it would be great, but I am not holding my breath. ) Thanks, Mike http//www.mnworld.com/bige MIke's CVN-65 Cruise page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From "Bob Evans" Subject "Naracoopa" Here's one for the scratch builder and maritime historian! Has anyone any information on a small Tasmanian coastal vessel called "Naracoopa"? She was built in 1940 originally for Holymans but later operated for the Tasmanian Government (I believe) and was the subject of a book "There Was a Ship" by Patsy Adam Smith. A long shot I know but any info would be gratefully received as I would like to make a model of her. Rgds Bob Evans ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From "Cooper, Mike" Subject Suvla Bay Diorama Hi All Link to photos of a 1/300th diorama of teh landings at Suvla Bay 1915 that I worked on. The two Beetles are scratchbuilds done as I've always done my 1/700th ships - platsicard boxes with Miliput pointy ends. Water is just Humbrol over Polifilla and a brushing of floor polish. http//www.wwi-models.org/Images/Rayner/Ground/index.html Mike Cooper Super-summery Reading UK PS. Site also contains some of my other non-ship stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From "David Griffith" Subject Re KGV crane Dear Joseph, I've got some Gold Medal photoetch that I probably won't be using the KGV cranes from. If you're interested you can have them (bases and jibs) and have some nice natty looking cranes rather than clunky plastic. Contact me off list if you'd like them. Regards David Griffith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From "David Griffith" Subject Re Trip to Virginia Dear All, My wife and I are coming on holiday to the USA next month. The management has allowed me to fulfill a little dream of visiting some of the Civil War sites in Pennsylvamia, Maryland and Virginia. Our itinerary will allow a little time to visit one of the maritime centres on the Virginia coast. One and one only, I hasten to add. Do any of you have any suggestions which of Norfolk, Newport News or Hampton Roads would be the best to visit, mostly from the point of view of historical interest, museums and "allround nice placeness", rather than as a modern navy centre. Oh yes, and I'm not thinking of visiting model shops. It's possible to push your luck too far!!! Regards, David Griffith Scotland ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From Ives100@aol.com Subject Re Submarine Disasters >> Also, there is an area due east of North Carolina which we referred to as the "Yankee Datum", where the USSR lost a Yankee class SSBN. During the entire time I was in the navy, they had either a warship or an auxiliary vessel continuously patrolling the area where the sub went down, so as to discourage any US salvage attempt. << That was the K-219 in 1986. Lost after an explosion of one of her liquid fuel missiles in the launch silo. Subject of the book "Hostile Waters". Tom Dougherty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at http//smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at http//apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume